Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;861142Couldn't another player use their own Action to feed the downed character a berry though? Same with a health potion.

How does an unconscious character chew and swallow? Even if you stuck it down their throat wouldn't it likely cause a blockage of the windpipe and lead to suffocation?

Questions like are above are why I like 5E and postulate that immersion-breaking in this edition is a bit harder, because those are all legitimate questions you can contend with if you so desire.

Otherwise, if we start thinking goodberries are immersion-breaking then I have to ask why we aren't looking at magic missile as immersion breaking (always hit, no matter what???) and that way lies not merely madness but other, more mundane games that do not deal with magic.

It looks like "immersion-breaking spell" here really means, "I let players do something I think is absurd, but I don't want to take responsibility for creating my own problem."

That could be a distraction, though, from a real issue, something like that the dude just doesn't like healing magic that gets casualties leaping back into action. I think that stylistic preference in magic is not very helpfully described as "immersion breaking." It just is what it is, and one can choose to play a role in such a world or not.

The simple solution is what it has ever been: don't like it, don't use it. You're the Game Master, not a slave to some book. If there isn't tons more 'Official' stuff, covering an even greater gamut of "Too silly, or just enough?" half a decade hence, then WotC will be falling down on the job. Start now to decide for yourself what fits or doesn't fit your own campaign.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;862886Now, this is a MASSIVE assumption for me, but assuming (and I admit that I could be wrong) that you've started the Abyss adventure as written, the PC start captured with everything stripped from them in terms of gear.  That sprig is supposed to be gone, along with anything else PC's come equipped with.  That was my point.

If you didn't have them captured, then that's fine, ignore my statement.  Just in my case, because I'm running the Adventure's League at my local Game Store, I had to follow the adventure as it was written.

(And it's on page 203 of the PHB, unless it states that the material component is consumed, it's not.  And Goodberry does NOT say the item is consumed.)

The party can regain their equipment back in the very first adventure. I could, I supposed, take away all their material components...but that's severe neutering of the spellcasters. And, even if I did that, there's still the generic "component pouch" or "spellcasting focus" that gets around the component issue, as well.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;862705That's what I meant. Knock them down, they get up, knock them down, they get up, knock them down, they get up.

I believe this is called the "Chumbawamba defense."

Quote from: dbm;862835Druids are very DM-dependent.

More the factor is the druids ability is like the wizards. It is adventure dependent.

Example. Way back. Playing completely through Keep on the Borderlands and Isle of Dread I as the groups magic user found all of 6 spells to add to my collection. One in Keep and the other 5 in Isle. And of those I found, 2 I already had.

Quote from: Doom;862936The party can regain their equipment back in the very first adventure. I could, I supposed, take away all their material components...but that's severe neutering of the spellcasters. And, even if I did that, there's still the generic "component pouch" or "spellcasting focus" that gets around the component issue, as well.

I've been running the adventure directly from the book, and it doesn't state anywhere that they get their gear back, I made that assumption and it turned out I was wrong.

Now, I ain't saying how you're doing it is wrong, it's your game after all, I was just curious as to how your team got their components back, is all.

As for neutering, it's been an interesting thing for my players, those that can, the Druid and Cleric (for example) started looking for spells without Material Components.  It's been fun, and tense.  Luckily healing spells don't need them.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;862886(And it's on page 203 of the PHB, unless it states that the material component is consumed, it's not.  And Goodberry does NOT say the item is consumed.)

Actually it does say the berry is consumed. But it does not say the sprig component is. So yeah. You can get a-lot of mileage out of that sprig.

Now the DM could be within their rights to require the sprig to be fresh and so it "wears out" after XYZ days. (Less than a week according to some mistletoe producers).

Quote from: Omega;862993Actually it does say the berry is consumed. But it does not say the sprig component is. So yeah. You can get a-lot of mileage out of that sprig.

Now the DM could be within their rights to require the sprig to be fresh and so it "wears out" after XYZ days. (Less than a week according to some mistletoe producers).

Huhn.  OK, thanks for the info.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;862989I've been running the adventure directly from the book, and it doesn't state anywhere that they get their gear back, I made that assumption and it turned out I was wrong.

Let me help you out here.

Page 14 of the Out of the Abyss book, in room 7, the very last paragraph (right above the section describing room :

"Additionally, the chest contains any valuables once held by the characters and NPCs, including any spellbooks, components, focuses, and magic items lost in the adventure."

Now, it certainly is  possible for characters not to search this room.  While the chest is locked, the dungeon layout is such that players that do much in the way of exploring will find this room, so it really seems like most players of this adventure will get their stuff back in a fairly convenient and the wholesale manner leads me to believe that the writers of this adventure rather intended this to happen.

Certainly, it could be much more intense without getting their stuff back...but the book I'm running the adventure out of sure allows for a high probability of the characters getting their stuff back.

Quote from: aspiringlich;862844My point was, if that's tiring enough to impose a -1 penalty on attack and damage rolls, shouldn't a fight to the death in which you're brought down to 1 hp from having had 50 be at least as tiring? And yet the latter doesn't entail any similar penalties.

Per BX RAW you are expected to be resting for nearly 10 minutes after each fight. If the PCs refuse to do that then certainly it seems reasonable to apply the same -1 penalty.

Quote from: Omega;862963More the factor is the druids ability is like the wizards. It is adventure dependent.

Example. Way back. Playing completely through Keep on the Borderlands and Isle of Dread I as the groups magic user found all of 6 spells to add to my collection. One in Keep and the other 5 in Isle. And of those I found, 2 I already had.

Well, given the DM creates or runs the adventures I stand by my assertion.

I think Wizards have it easier than Druids. At least you get to pick two spells of your choice when you level up. The Druid has no such mechanism for learning new forms.

Quote from: dbm;863009Well, given the DM creates or runs the adventures I stand by my assertion.

I think Wizards have it easier than Druids. At least you get to pick two spells of your choice when you level up. The Druid has no such mechanism for learning new forms.

Youd be wrong then at some tables. If it does not fit the adventure either as fleshed out by the DM or from an unfolding freeform then it isnt going to show. The DM is not obligated to cater to your class.

As noted in an older thread on druids. The PC should start off with a base collection of animals known fitting their starting location. That should give non-Moon druids a good enough spread. For a moon druid. Finding those higher level forms could be an adventure unto itself. Convincing the group (and DM possibly) to set out to look for new creatures forms to learn.

If the DM is not imposing limits on the setting then a druid should be able to easily pick up a horse, dog, cat, and even an elephant by wandering around a city since PCs can buy elephants.

And so on.

For some players finding the extras is half the fun of the class. Others want their ubah powah nowah! As usual. Depends on the group.

Quote from: Omega;863016The DM is not obligated to cater to your class.

You're right. You could almost say that it depends on the DM, even that it was DM dependent...

Quote from: S'mon;863003Per BX RAW you are expected to be resting for nearly 10 minutes after each fight. If the PCs refuse to do that then certainly it seems reasonable to apply the same -1 penalty.

Even in OD&D/AD&D (with one-minute rounds), I find that it works well to round up to a 10-minute turn assumed to get filled out with patching up and rest. It would be a notable situation if people were too hard pressed for that. A -1 penalty seems if anything lenient (though accumulation could become a big deal).

Quote from: dbm;863044You're right. You could almost say that it depends on the DM, even that it was DM dependent...

As said. Not necessarily. In a freeform game it may not, and in a module game it will not. (without the DM actually catering which is a totally different matter.)

As noted. If it doesnt fit, then dont expect it to be there.
You are crossing a freshwater river 100klm from the ocean. Why are you bemoaning the lack or Orcas to study?

I have the Knock spell memorized. I do not expect or demand that there be a locked door or chest for me to use the spell on.