13th Age more D&D than 2E and 5E?

The Butcher · October 19, 2015, 07:35:55 PM

Tweet co-founded White Wolf with Mark Rein•Hagen.

I can't quite fault him for beating the old "games for mature minds" drum — hell, it's probably just what 4e fans want to hear — but I'm not sure it's going to earn him any cachet outside the echo chamber.

I know very little about the man, but based strictly on the OP's quote, he does sounds like a pretentious douche. Jonathan Twat is more like it.

James Gillen · October 19, 2015, 08:24:14 PM

Quote from: Arminius;860655Thanks, I found your review yesterday, and it gave me a pretty good picture. Although I appreciate the concept, I have to say I'm not particularly impressed with the execution at least as described. In fact, it doesn't really seem to offer much of anything that (for example) various GURPS Advantages and Disadvantages do.

Again, I found 13th Age very vague, compared to a point-buy system like Hero or GURPS, but the dice mechanic is the kind of thing that (I suppose) helps people get into the spirit of the concept.

JG

Ulairi · October 19, 2015, 08:28:50 PM

Quote from: AsenRG;860855Really?
If there is a faster way to get me to swear off a game, it's probably not within the abilities of any of the local stores.

And while I understand his opinion on 2e, I'll join the group that says that what feels like D&D depends strongly on the players.

I can understand someone not liking 2E but it is AD&D. Moreso than any edition after

Just Another Snake Cult · October 19, 2015, 08:53:37 PM

IIRC I actually played in a game of Tweet's once, in the 80s, when I was in my early teens and he was playtesting Ars Magica and Whimsy Cards at a small regional con in Astoria, Illinois.

As much as I sometimes take smartass potshots at some of the games he designed I remember him (very vaguely) as a cool, fun guy.

arminius · October 19, 2015, 10:13:05 PM

Tweet is very hard to pin down.

http://therpghaven.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=499&start=230

http://www.the-prussian-gamer.de/index.php?topic=1746.msg35630#msg35630

(Also got some airing here.)

AsenRG · October 20, 2015, 07:57:21 PM

Quote from: Ulairi;860876I can understand someone not liking 2E but it is AD&D. Moreso than any edition after

On another thread in this forum someone called 2e books "dry and apologetic". That's exactly the definition I was looking at when posting, but I didn't find it at the time:).
And "dry and apologetic" are exactly the two sins I can't accept in any book that pretends to be D&D, so I suspect that while it might have had similar mechanics, it probably lead to a quite different playstyle;).

Just Another Snake Cult · October 20, 2015, 11:54:01 PM

2E the game (Meaning the actual thing that happens at the table with your friends) is way, way, way better than 2E the books, which had some really ugly internal design and and that hard-to-describe "Apologetic" thing going on.

Nerzenjäger · October 21, 2015, 02:45:07 AM

Quote5E has some surprisingly nice bits, but it doesn't seemed tuned for the serious play that my group engages in. That's why Rob Heinsoo and I wrote 13th Age.

*shudder* What the flying fuck does this even mean?
"Serious" play? It's the 90s all over again!

Other than that, 13th Age is a fun game and would 5E not have been released, I would be running it now.

Nerzenjäger · October 21, 2015, 02:48:54 AM

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;8610362E the game (Meaning the actual thing that happens at the table with your friends) is way, way, way better than 2E the books, which had some really ugly internal design and and that hard-to-describe "Apologetic" thing going on.

I agree. 2E gets some undeserved bad rep.

My main gripes with 2E:
1) The books make it seem like an uber-slick version of 1E
2) It tried to further codify D&D

One Horse Town · October 21, 2015, 04:42:49 AM

Quote from: Arminius;860891Tweet is very hard to pin down.

http://therpghaven.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=499&start=230

http://www.the-prussian-gamer.de/index.php?topic=1746.msg35630#msg35630

(Also got some airing here.)

Wait, Malcolm Shepperd, aka Eyebeamz, is Jonathon Tweet?

Batman · October 21, 2015, 05:10:11 AM

I may have to give 13th Age a try. That being said, I never felt D&D had a specific "feel". Its about as generic a fantasy role-playing game as you can get (regardless of edition) and have very few ACTUAL distinguishing factors that set it high and above any other non-D&D fantasy RPG. I really think that its generic nature is its biggest feature.

AsenRG · October 21, 2015, 06:29:58 AM

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;8610362E the game (Meaning the actual thing that happens at the table with your friends) is way, way, way better than 2E the books, which had some really ugly internal design and and that hard-to-describe "Apologetic" thing going on.

What happens at the table obviously varies between groups, and I can attest that the first time I tried RPGs, it was with 2e, and I almost gave up on the idea of RPGs altogether.

yabaziou · October 21, 2015, 07:37:46 AM

I have played and GMed 13th and enjoyed that a lot and people I know have told this game is lot like D&D 4.

Ironicaly, the French version of 13th Age was a commercial failure and the publisher stopped futher releases of this game one year after its initial release in France. Meanwhile, untranslated version of D&D 5 sells well in France. Maybe the facts that 7ème Cercle seems to be hellbent on assaulting the French Language by not doing their proofing job right and also do little to encourage a online community to emerge (in contrast of what Pelgrane does) are something to do with it.

Caesar Slaad · October 23, 2015, 09:03:27 AM

Quote from: James Gillen;860217I think 13th Age is a 4E that sorta works.

Yeah, basically. 13th Age has some cool bits that add a bit of wonder back to the game and make it a bit less "boardgamey", but it's still in the 4e "enclave". It's playable and I've had some fun with it, but I still don't like the 4e-like structure that is the basis of the characters. I'll play in the games of friends who run it, but I'll probably never run it.

Ripping off some of its cooler non-4e inspired hacks like the archtypes and "one unique thing", however, is something I am okay with.

arminius · October 23, 2015, 10:02:55 AM

Quote from: One Horse Town;861056Wait, Malcolm Shepperd, aka Eyebeamz, is Jonathon Tweet?

Hah, no. Malcolm quoted JoT (and apparently agreed with him).