Quote from: Spinachcat;857851Welcome to the RPGsite Natasha!

Thank You

Quote from: Spinachcat;857851What I really like about KS is there are plenty of forums to discuss projects and many bloggers who get early drafts and playtests so you can often get a good sense of what is being proposed and by whom.

I'm a big Conan fan and when the Conan boardgame KS was launched, I was able to watch actual play videos (too damn long, but useful) to see how the game played via the prototypes.

Also, some RPG KS projects are mostly looking for cash for art and they already have a beta PDF to share as soon as you pledge.

I have not yet pledged for a "I have a dream" style KS where the creator is looking for money before doing substantial work and I doubt I would support those unless the creator had a sterling track record.

But if Kevin Crawford of Sine Nomine started a KS for "Mystery RPG supplement" and wanted $10 for a PDF that he could not tell us about until it was done, I would absolutely give him $10 because I have greatly enjoyed everything I've bought from him.

If a kickstarter has been written and just needs art and playtesting then maybe I would kick  money in.  But if they haven't started the writing and need money to do the writing (IE they don't have a day job and need the money to survive) then no thank you, I will wait until it is done (If it gets done)

Quote from: Nexus;857854Welcome to the site.

I'm with you. I just can't bring myself to back KS's. It feels too much like buying a pig in a poke.

Thank you for the welcome.  If they haven't even bothered to start the writing then that's a bad start for the  project and I can just wait.

Thank you for the nice welcome

Quote from: Natasha;858390If they haven't even bothered to start the writing then that's a bad start for the  project and I can just wait.

Which I think is a legit guideline for KS picking. In his post Spinachcat is giving Crawford and Sine Nomine the benefit of the doubt because Crawford's track record has earned it.

Then again, Crawford's track record was set by having the text already written when the KS is pitched. As others have described, you get the beta text as soon as you back the project for at the most some crowdsourced proofreading. Not sure if he ever would try to pitch a book that wasn't that far yet.

I can see how crowdfunding is not everyone's thing, but it's been a cool and overall positive experience for me, at least until Exalted 3e comes in.

Quote from: Natasha;858389If a kickstarter has been written and just needs art and playtesting then maybe I would kick  money in.  But if they haven't started the writing and need money to do the writing (IE they don't have a day job and need the money to survive) then no thank you, I will wait until it is done (If it gets done)

Never back anything associated with Game Salute. Their battle cry is "Going to the printers soon! - Working in it! - Going to the printers soon! - Working in it!" for YEARS...

More games are now offering a preview or PNP demo during or before the KS goes up. Those tend to fare better.

I helped run and manage the Kickstarter for Interface Zero 2.0 for Gun Metal Games.

The book wasn't complete by the time the Kickstarter was over, but we made sure a good portion of the ground work was done before we started. The Book came out late, but it was 2 months late...as opposed to well....3+ years.

These days if I ever ended up participating in a Kickstarter again, I'd want to make sure the rough of the product was done right away before I put the KS up.

Interface Zero is a badass game, so is Totems of the Dead.  Not sure about the Pathfinder version though.  Do you know if the new hacking rules for the PF version will be useful in other systems, or is it the same process, just turned to d20 mechanics.

Back on topic... I'm a backer of this game.  Skarka can be an asshole, so can I.  I think RP game designers are a little too cliquey, the circle a little too much of an echo chamber.  Networking is one thing, groupthink is another.  Skarka's behavior in pissing everyone off doesn't interest me.

I gave Far West a chance figuring it might take a long time to come out, or never.  I always saw Kickstarter as being kind of a Patron/Artist or VC/Inventor relationship.  There's risk.  You don't want the risk, don't pledge.  If that's not your mom's credit card in your hand, then think before you use it, and accept the result.

Skarka may or may not have run this thing like a total cluster and the stress and pressure of it may or may not have contributed to the delay, who knows. I kind of tuned out to wait for this one, which reminds me I have to contact Skarka I think they did release some of the short stories or artbook or something.

All I know is pointing to JMal and Skarka as proof that KS isn't worth it is asinine.  Reaper, Goodman, Sine Nomine, Jerry Grayson, all have run great KS projects.

Quote from: CRKrueger;858466Interface Zero is a badass game, so is Totems of the Dead.  Not sure about the Pathfinder version though.  Do you know if the new hacking rules for the PF version will be useful in other systems, or is it the same process, just turned to d20 mechanics.

I'm not involved with the pathfinder version, it's something Dave Jarvis (owner of Gun Metal Games) has wanted to do for awhile. There was also some talk of Totems of the Dead going to Pathfinder which I totally support because that game DESERVES to reach a bigger audience.

I am however currently writing the Stopwatch's 10 most wanted sourcebook for IZ. It'll give some more details on the paramilitary group whose dedicated to tackling potentially catastrophic threats and will detail groups and individuals capable of making those threats.

Agreed, for the most part. In spite of stories about GMS, I've backed a number of successful Kickstarters. Some have been late, and some I'm still waiting for. Where I disagree is with any notion that because Kickstarter is risky, people who've been stiffed should just suck it up. It doesn't matter if you see it as giving away money on patronage, that's not quite the nature of the legal relationship between the person running the campaign and the backers. Hopefully, legal action in Washington state sets a precedent.

Quote from: Bobloblah;858472Agreed, for the most part. In spite of stories about GMS, I've backed a number of successful Kickstarters. Some have been late, and some I'm still waiting for. Where I disagree is with any notion that because Kickstarter is risky, people who've been stiffed should just suck it up. It doesn't matter if you see it as giving away money on patronage, that's not quite the nature of the legal relationship between the person running the campaign and the backers. Hopefully, legal action in Washington state sets a precedent.

Sure, someone wants to sue Skarka, sue Skarka.  Saying KS itself though is risky because it mostly works as intended though, is silly.  People and money will fuck up everything, including KS, but not every campaign.

Agreed. The current lawsuit is nothing to do with GMS.

Quote from: Bobloblah;858472Agreed, for the most part. In spite of stories about GMS, I've backed a number of successful Kickstarters. Some have been late, and some I'm still waiting for. Where I disagree is with any notion that because Kickstarter is risky, people who've been stiffed should just suck it up. It doesn't matter if you see it as giving away money on patronage, that's not quite the nature of the legal relationship between the person running the campaign and the backers. Hopefully, legal action in Washington state sets a precedent.

Yeah, backing kickstarters isn't for everyone, but the bad apples are only a few in each buchel.  (Well, aside from the obvious ones, like the "Give me $100,000 to create this new console that I have designed with crayon drawings." But those are usually easy to avoid.

I've gotten some really cool stuff.  I'm looking forward to playing this Epic card game here.  I haven't had a chance yet, but I want to read through the Deadlands book I backed recently, and before that I had a great time at the recent con playing East Texas University.

I've also got some neat non-game stuff.  I haven't opened it yet, but I got a graphic novel from Gene Ha last week.  I've also gotten some neat fairy pictures from one artist, and supported a couple of musical albums from a few others, and have backed a few children's books.

It's totally true - if you don't have the money to spend and not see what you're getting for a while, then you definitely shouldn't back any kickstarters. It's an extravagance.

But on the other hand, I've given about $230 off to Cool Mini or Not for the Zombicide: Black Plague kickstarter, and in return sometime early next year I'll get a fun game and a ton of plastic bits that I'm looking forward to learning how to play with and paint.  Along with dozens of other things I'm looking forward to getting in the mail sometime in the next year.

Quote from: Bobloblah;858490Agreed. The current lawsuit is nothing to do with GMS.

It hasnt gotten to lawsuit level yet. Backers have had to go to state attorney and force a refund. The designer apparently declared that no one else is getting a refund unless they go through the state attorney too? Missed this so I am dubious he actually said something that asinine.

Compared to other KS meltdowns this has been fairly mild.

Last year some comic writer flipped out when people complained about the lateness and publically burned copies of the book and threatened to burn more if anyone else complained. The dinosaur game where the designer flipped out and force canceled and refunded backers who spoke out about the un-announced changes in the game and product.

These are rare compared to KS games that succeed. Yes, many are late. But so are real publishers. FFG is notorious for being unable to meet their own release times for example.

Lots of good stuff to back on KS. A few months ago there was a new type of 3d printer that looked really interesting. But unfortunately funds were not availible. If Gamezone actually gets HeroQuest out and follows through I will be sorely tempted to back their Space Crusade game.

There also alot of smaller KS that look promising. See the recent KS thread here for a few examples.

Quote from: Omega;858577It hasnt gotten to lawsuit level yet..

I wasn't talking about GMS when I referred to legal precedent: see here

Another of my Kickstarters just delivered today. Again not an RPG, but fulfillment is fulfillment.

As far as GMS and Far West are concerned, I'd be very interested in what T.S. Luikhart (sp?) and Adamant had to say about the lack of involvement after previously being involved.

Regardless, I deeply regret a friend of mine kicked in on this project.  However, his backing of several Monte Cook Kickstarters has gone very well, so there is at least that.