Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;845877And as long as "objectively better" never comes into it, I'm perfectly good with that.  I like beer much better than I like Scotch.  Doesn't mean beer is objectively better than Scotch, or vice versa.

Or that Zima is a step up the evolutionary ladder...

Quote from: Ulairi;845308So, I was watching a review of D&D 5E on YouTube and the host did this thing about how he got started through AD&D and then played 2E in college, yadda yadda, and mentioned that he cannot play those games anymore. He really liked 5E (which I do, too). Then, yesterday on G+, I was reading a post and had the same thing about how AD&D was great and helped them get hooked into the hobby but he could never play it anymore. This made me realize that I hear from a lot of people (online) sort of the same thing. It makes me feel like an odd duck because I still really like AD&D. I got started on 2E but what my friends and I play is AD&D. When I go to Nexus Milwaukee or Gary Con, I play AD&D. I go to Half Priced books regularly looking for product. Why do so many people seem to dislike AD&D now?

When someone says they don't play D&D anymore, it's because they outgrew it. Either they got family and kids now, or they moved on from the simple D20 that kids start their RPGing from.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;845877I like beer much better than I like Scotch.  Doesn't mean beer is objectively better than Scotch, or vice versa.

They are complimentary. You chase a scotch with a beer.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;845882When someone says they don't play D&D anymore, it's because they outgrew it. Either they got family and kids now, or they moved on from the simple D20 that kids start their RPGing from.

Or they're an utter rampaging fuckmorton who wants to sound "too cool for D&D," and can tongue my pee hole.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;845877I like beer much better than I like Scotch.

Depends on the beer...and the scotch. I like both, but I've had some of each that tasted so bad I wouldn't even piss on the brewery to put out a fire.

Quote from: TristramEvans;845879Or that Zima is a step up the evolutionary ladder...

Zing!

We used to have a neighborhood horseshoe tournament where the prize for the worst team was a six pack of warm Zima that the losers had to drink.

Nah. Any type of scotch is inferior to even the cheapest domestic beer

Quote from: Moracai;845912Nah. Any type of scotch is inferior to even the cheapest domestic beer

I had one Scotch I really liked in Seminary.  Mine host told us he was happy to find several bottles of it for "ONLY" $200 a bottle.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;845916I had one Scotch I really liked in Seminary.  Mine host told us he was happy to find several bottles of it for "ONLY" $200 a bottle.

I've paid upwards of 2000 for a bottle of 30 year Brora (and that was me getting a deal). But Im the sort who only drinks twice a year at best

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;845916I had one Scotch I really liked in Seminary.  Mine host told us he was happy to find several bottles of it for "ONLY" $200 a bottle.

My price point on Scotch is somewhere south of $200. But depending on the rate of inflation, that Scotch is cheaper on a per drink basis than Dom Perignon which my wife, who has had Dom, tells me actually does taste four times better than Veuve, Moet, and Tattingers.

Quote from: TristramEvans;845917I've paid upwards of 2000 for a bottle of 30 year Brora (and that was me getting a deal). But Im the sort who only drinks twice a year at best

$2000 :jaw-dropping: Dude, you are wayyyy out of my price bracket for alcohol.

Quote from: Bren;845923$2000 :jaw-dropping: Dude, you are wayyyy out of my price bracket for alcohol.

It was a special occasion, just after a business I'd started turned profit for the first month. I'm not sure I'd do it again unless I happened to get a sudden windfall.

But what something is worth is completely a matter of personal perception. My GF will drop a grand on clothing like its nothing and I feel put out just to spend a hundred or two once or twice a year when they're a necessity, meanwhile I'll easily spend hundreds a month on miniatures and books without batting an eye.

Quote from: Bren;845809It's not evolution. It's just a different system, designed by different guys, which you happen to like better that what came before it.

I take exception to this.  It IS evolution.  Simply for two reasons, the first is the obvious, it might be done by 'new guys' but the core idea is the same, they just took what they knew worked and changed it to fit how people think now, when we game.

We've had thirty some years of experience now, some of the old ideas are clunky and frankly nonsensical.  Yes, some people like the old systems, and there's nothing wrong with that, but other people want something more, something that fits how they've changed.  Every new edition IS an evolution.  It's not perfect, it's not 'right' or 'wrong', it just is.

And secondly, Evolution is not some clean process, mother nature teaches us that.  She sticks mutations on us and sees what happens, if the species survives!  Great, keep at it.  If not, oh well, not meant to be.  Seriously, it's a slapdash affair at the best of times, and it doesn't always remove bits that don't need to be there.  Like say, the human appendix.  That little organ has not been needed for millennia, and yet the little bugger is still there, causing humans problems from time to time.

I suppose it could be considered evolution, insofar as natural evolution doesn't always give desireable or even semi-decent results.

Like pandas.

That's 3e & 4e - pandas. Result of evolution, yes. Good, no.

Happily 5e returned D&D to form.

Quote from: The Ent;845942Happily 5e returned D&D to form.

I love this, because it actually borrows so much from 3e.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;845955I love this, because it actually borrows so much from 3e.

Sort of, I kinda concede the point, but 5e uses the 3e stuff in a very different way from 3e...anyway could've been so much worse, could've borrowed from 4e instead...but then, even 3e > 4e by a lot.

Quote from: Tetsubo;845876This: 'But, I preferred AD&D to 3E as it was more atmospheric', I don't get. How can a set of rules have 'atmosphere'? Some of the setting material from the AD&D era is great. I still have some of it. But I wouldn't ever use the rules again.

I don't know, but that's how I felt. It was a long time ago, so I can't really remember why.

We carried on playing AD&D for a year or so, after we say 3E and did not use 3E at all.