Quote from: AsenRG;844643If only I did:D!

But I didn't, and instead, my question was answered, by different people who didn't see a problem with it.
Why do you still have a problem with it, Gronan, or is it a problem with me?

Problem, no.  Just giving you crap, that's all.  Where's that "poking somebody with a stick" smiley when you need it?

Also, I never know how much people know about how Google really works.  For instance, did you know if you google "knives, forks, and spoons of energy" Google will take you to Backstage Lensman's wiki page, but only if you include the quotation marks so that Google treats it as one phrase and not separate words?

Quote from: chirine ba kal;844657Oh, yes - Phil thought in very long terms.

The twins are mine and Si N'te's little bundles of joy. Phil rolled them up, and commented he'd created two little monsters - one boy, one girl. They both inherited my abilities as a magic-user, and the wife's abilities as a telepath. She's from the Nyemesel Islands, where they have the 'good' telepaths; their very nasty cousins live in Lost Bayarsha, which is a place I do not advise visiting. The 'natural' telepaths were bred for their ability by the ancient Lords of Humanspace, like the way that they bred their Space Marines - the Nylss - and the deckhands for their starships - the Nom. The telepaths' genetic marker - and this was before DNA had been discovered, remember - is a lack of any body hair.

So, the twins were born while we were fighting the Sirsum Campaign, at the Monastery of the Many Falling Leaves about a week's march east of Hekellu. (Try running a military campaign with a heavily pregnant wife, sometime; it was a little too exciting.) They have grown up into two holy terrors, as they are perfectly normal toddlers who can vaporize you if them wanted to. Since they are telepaths, they have picked up all of mommy and daddy's spells, and while they can't blast big things, they can be hard on their toys. I am happy to say that they have also inherited their mother's good looks and even better nature, so we don't have many problems with them.

Their Ladyships refer to them as "our scrumptious little darlings", and dote on them; they are naturally cute and adorable, and their good natures simply ad to their winsome ways. They find their father (me) a never-ending source of amusement, and tend to break out into laughter when I come into the room and say something...

(One cautionary note: The twins got some 'dolls' as gifts when they were infants, and these are still their constant night-time companions. These were a gift from the Clan of the Striding Incantation, the very ancient and very high-status magical puppeteers' clan; we never, ever mess with or play with them ourselves, and only the twins handle them. We adults call the four 'dolls' The Warrior, The Priestess, The Sorceror, and The Soldier; what the twins call them, they're not sharing with us.)

That's two natural children; the third is Elara, who is a perfectly normal girl in her late teens. Luckily, she looks more like her mother then she does me - I do look like her mother, though, so there's a very strong family resemblance. She's not a magic-user, or a warrior; just a normal girl, who happens to have a large extended family.

There are the adopted kids, all of whom just sort of happened. They are relatives of various friends, allies, and people we know who wound up with us - usually, they have a bit of a history behind them, like any good NPCs, butt hey are good kids. About half of them are on the legion rolls, as they are pretty good officers - over and above the family connection, otherwise we would not have them in command of troops. The other half, more or less, are on the payroll as palace staff, keeping the place running. Two have achieved relatively high office, and I am very proud of them. I'm proud of all of them, really; all they needed was a little parenting, I think.

I can tell you all about them...

I do not have any co-husbands. (There are days when I could use the reinforcements, but we manage to work things out.) Their Ladyships - more formally, the Senior Wife, the Junior Wife, the First Concubine, the Second Concubine, and the Senior Courtesan - haven't found anyone that they like well enough to invite into the family, so I soldier on by myself as The Husband. The Senior Wife, in her capacity as Lady Of The House, writes up everyone's marriage contracts after lots and lots of negotiations. All of Their Ladyships (in order of seniority: the telepath, the scholar, the assassin, the sorceress, and the buccaneer - I have a very eclectic family!) get the kind of relationships that they want; it helps that they all knew each other for years before they were formally married to Yours Truly, and they're a pretty tightly-knit group.

I think I don't have any co-husbands because Their Ladyships have been described as 'formidable', and while they are not actively recruiting (I think) it may very well be that their individual and collective reputations may be scaring potential suitors off.

Me, I'm happy; they let me run the military, letting me do what I do best.

How's this for a short introduction?

That's an excellent introduction! Although I'd offer an alternative explanation for your lack of co-husbands: namely, your wives suspect that you should never give a military expert reinforcements...
That reminds me of two questions:
What's the status of children of concubines compared to the status of legal wives?
If someone who already has an extended family wants to become co-husband to someone who already has another family, do they have to get everyone's approval;)? Or do the families just merge as soon as they go to a priest and pronounce vows?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;844678Problem, no.  Just giving you crap, that's all.  Where's that "poking somebody with a stick" smiley when you need it?

Also, I never know how much people know about how Google really works.  For instance, did you know if you google "knives, forks, and spoons of energy" Google will take you to Backstage Lensman's wiki page, but only if you include the quotation marks so that Google treats it as one phrase and not separate words?

Well, I see your predicament. I've been looking for the same smiley almost since I'm on this board.

And yes, I know that. I just didn't think to google it, neither with nor without quotation marks!

Quote from: chirine ba kal;844657Oh, yes - Phil thought in very long terms.

The twins are mine and Si N'te's little bundles of joy. Phil rolled them up, and commented he'd created two little monsters - one boy, one girl. They both inherited my abilities as a magic-user, and the wife's abilities as a telepath. She's from the Nyemesel Islands, where they have the 'good' telepaths; their very nasty cousins live in Lost Bayarsha, which is a place I do not advise visiting. The 'natural' telepaths were bred for their ability by the ancient Lords of Humanspace, like the way that they bred their Space Marines - the Nylss - and the deckhands for their starships - the Nom. The telepaths' genetic marker - and this was before DNA had been discovered, remember - is a lack of any body hair.

Short term thinking does seem to be more of a new trend.

Anyway, while I love all the details of the family, it isn't something that is easy to directly apply to starting players (besides how their new contacts fit into the scheme of things).

What may be more useful to new players is the types of inter-clan and intra-clan scheming that is going on or can be expected.

"Country Bumpkins" need interesting things they can become involved in and survive. (Assuming they have some level of common sense.)

How hostile is life in general? From your family size I have to assume it is a very "Dog eat Dog" world since high population and limited resources breeds intense competition for everything.

Does this competition effect every aspect of life?
I didn't get a feeling of internal family backstabbing besides the no co-husband.

Am I completely into "My Tekumel" and not the one you experience?
=

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;844607If you take the phrase I quoted,

"beams, rods, cones, stilettos, icepicks, corkscrews, knives, forks, and spoons of energy raved against the screens of the Dentless."

and enter it in its entirety into Google, the first link you get is the Wikipedia page for "Backstage Lensman" by Randall Garret.

I thought you were creating parody rather than quoting a parody, so I never bothered to search... or to put it another way, I knew the original source and was unaware of the published parody.

Quote from: Bren;844732I thought you were creating parody rather than quoting a parody, so I never bothered to search... or to put it another way, I knew the original source and was unaware of the published parody.

You should read it, it' s pretty funny.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;844748You should read it, it' s pretty funny.

I'm not a huge fan of parody, but I'll look for it. At least it sounds more like parody written by someone who likes the original than what seems the more common form where the parody is written by someone who despises the source.

Quote from: AsenRG;844684That's an excellent introduction! Although I'd offer an alternative explanation for your lack of co-husbands: namely, your wives suspect that you should never give a military expert reinforcements...
That reminds me of two questions:
What's the status of children of concubines compared to the status of legal wives?
If someone who already has an extended family wants to become co-husband to someone who already has another family, do they have to get everyone's approval;)? Or do the families just merge as soon as they go to a priest and pronounce vows?

It could very well be; I keep my nose out of the household's workings. Better that way, I've found.

All children of all partners have the same legal status. There's no concept of bastardy in Tekumel.

There is not a lot of difference between 'legal wives' and 'concubines'. These terms are English translations of the Tekumelyani terms, and are not entirely accurate. (I can look up the Urdu terms that Phil used, if you like; they are more accurate reflections of what he was talking about.)'Wives' are usually in more responsible positions of running the household affairs and the clan business(es). 'Concubines' are equally responsible for family affairs, but not so much for business affairs.

Yes. A smart suitor, male or female, makes sure to become friendly with and part of the existing family/clan structure and members. Coming in 'cold' very rarely works out, as the 'cold caller' has a much harder time fitting in.

The Temples, at least in the Five Empires, do not conduct marriages. All one does to 'get married' is file the form with the Imperium - the Palace of the Realm - and the spouses move in as has been worked out. Everything is handled by the clans of the newlyweds, and everything has been negotiated in advance. Usually, the new spouse moves into the more wealthy and more high-status clan's clanhouse; the various family may or not make moves as well, depending on the situation.

Now, having said that, it is the custom to have the Temples of the various spouses appear at a party/feast and officially bless the newlyweds, asking the Gods to make sure that the relationship prospers. You'll get some pretty odd combinations, like a Priestess of Lord Sarku doing the blessings with a Priest of Thumis, or any possible combination of the Temples.

Does this help, at all?

Quote from: Greentongue;844712Short term thinking does seem to be more of a new trend.

Anyway, while I love all the details of the family, it isn't something that is easy to directly apply to starting players (besides how their new contacts fit into the scheme of things).

What may be more useful to new players is the types of inter-clan and intra-clan scheming that is going on or can be expected.

"Country Bumpkins" need interesting things they can become involved in and survive. (Assuming they have some level of common sense.)

How hostile is life in general? From your family size I have to assume it is a very "Dog eat Dog" world since high population and limited resources breeds intense competition for everything.

Does this competition effect every aspect of life?
I didn't get a feeling of internal family backstabbing besides the no co-husband.

Am I completely into "My Tekumel" and not the one you experience?
=

Agreed; I think very long term myself, and it's considered 'odd'.

Agreed. I was just trying to answer the question.

Please feel free to ask me about this, if you like. 'Intra-clan scheming' is generally limited to the largest of the clans, such as the Ito and Vriddi, and is usually based on political matters - both examples have factions, based on their relationships with the Imperium, and both have a lot of their clan members spending time in the Catacombs of Silent Waiting below Avanthar.

Agreed. I had a lot of fun with the 'Country Bumpkin' gambit, myself.

Tekumel is not a human-friendly world; we are not at the top of the food chain - about a third down, I think. The flora and fauna, not to mention the hostile non-humans, can make something as simple as plowing a field difficult. Hence the need for player-characters - somebody has to go out to the clan's farm outside of town to deal that Serudla who's been terrorizing the farmers. Etc., etc. , etc. Phil built this world to adventure in, after all.

Re 'competition', I don't know. In-family/clan scheming isn't very common, from my experience; the clan/family tends to be pretty unified about things. 'External' competion, on the other hand, is pretty wide-spread; 'keeping up with the hi Chaisyani or the Sea Blue clan' is normal, and can be a lot of fun to play - "Honey, Lady Mnella has those lovely new drapes from Livyanu; can I get some? Please?" - and we're off on yet another adventure!

I don't know. What is 'your Tekumel?'

So far, at least in this discussion, it sounds a lot like Phil's in the general run of things. Yes, I can see detail variations, but all of them have been 'well within the lines' of Phil's own gaming. Your questions sound just like what we asked Phil, some thirty-five years ago, so i think you're on the same path that we have been.

Quote from: Bren;844754I'm not a huge fan of parody, but I'll look for it. At least it sounds more like parody written by someone who likes the original than what seems the more common form where the parody is written by someone who despises the source.

It was first written by Randall Garrett, the author of the "Lord D'Arcy" series, and first shown to E. E. 'Doc' Smith for his comments. Doc laughed his head off all through the convention they were both at, and suggested the ship's name, the Dentless, as a parody of his own Dauntless. Phil once mentioned that Doc had a great sense of humor, and didn't take himself too seriously; he used to dress up as a Grey Lensman at conventions - but as his own age, as a slightly 'over-the-hill' Lensman who had trouble catching the bad guys because he couldn't walk fast enough...

'Doc', by the way, is credited by the US Navy for the invention of the Combat Information Center for warships; we follow in the footsteps of giants...

Quote from: chirine ba kal;844792Please feel free to ask me about this, if you like. 'Intra-clan scheming' is generally limited to the largest of the clans, such as the Ito and Vriddi, and is usually based on political matters - both examples have factions, based on their relationships with the Imperium, and both have a lot of their clan members spending time in the Catacombs of Silent Waiting below Avanthar.

I assume that things that would be embarrassing if they became common knowledge would be great for starting characters to resolve.
Running out of "performance enhancing" herb, gambling debt, Clan Stamp missing, forgetting to get that item the favorite wife wanted ...

The problem is, what is embarrassing? If not embarrassing then what types of things would need to be handled "quietly" and creatively?

What about Zuur?

Quote from: chirine ba kal;844792Re 'competition', I don't know. In-family/clan scheming isn't very common, from my experience; the clan/family tends to be pretty unified about things. 'External' competion, on the other hand, is pretty wide-spread; 'keeping up with the hi Chaisyani or the Sea Blue clan' is normal, and can be a lot of fun to play - "Honey, Lady Mnella has those lovely new drapes from Livyanu; can I get some? Please?" - and we're off on yet another adventure!

Charging for more than shipped, diverting products or raw materials, causing "accidents" to clan property?
What would be things that would be done and how far would someone go to avoid Imperial involvement?

Fishing for adventure ideas here and maybe some you have used/done.
=

Quote from: Bren;844754I'm not a huge fan of parody, but I'll look for it. At least it sounds more like parody written by someone who likes the original than what seems the more common form where the parody is written by someone who despises the source.

I love good parody, but in my book "good" parody is only written by somebody who really, deeply loves the source.

Like "Bored of the Rings."  Remove the dated drug and political jokes, and there are sections in it that make it obvious that gang really, really loved Lord of the Rings.  You'd have to, to read it that many times to be able to parody it that well.

And, of course, parody was a highly prized form by Golden Age fantasy and SF writers... the Stainless Steel Rat, Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers, Bill the Galactic Hero, even Fafhrd & the Mouser have elements of parody, to mention nothing of Midsummer Tempest and Harold Shea.

Quote from: Greentongue;844798I assume that things that would be embarrassing if they became common knowledge would be great for starting characters to resolve.
Running out of "performance enhancing" herb, gambling debt, Clan Stamp missing, forgetting to get that item the favorite wife wanted ...

The problem is, what is embarrassing? If not embarrassing then what types of things would need to be handled "quietly" and creatively?

What about Zuur?



Charging for more than shipped, diverting products or raw materials, causing "accidents" to clan property?
What would be things that would be done and how far would someone go to avoid Imperial involvement?

Fishing for adventure ideas here and maybe some you have used/done.
=

Well, first off, anything that makes your clan, legion, temple, etc. look bad - i.e., held up to ridicule. All of your examples are, in greater or lesser degree, 'embarrassing', and you'd prefer to handle them on the quiet. You could add stupid actions at parties, getting caught with your fingers in the clan / temple / legion's coffers - I once killed a High Priest of the Temple of Vimuhla, on the spot, for embezzling from the temple's funds - cowardice in the face of the enemy, rape, treason, and other similar violations of the society's norms.

One of the odder things we had to do was get one of the PC's out of town in a hurry, as he'd gotten stupid and molested the city goevrnor's daughter at a party. We were told to get rid of him quietly and discreetly, so we hit him with an Excellent Ruby Eye, stuffed him in a crate, and shipped the crate off as quickly as we could. (This is the origin of "The Inexorable Cart Of Chirine ba Kal", my contribution to the Saturday Night Specials that Phil used.)

Your second set of things are also really good, and are the sort of thing that the clans want to handle themselves. They are also used, as I think you mentioned, as 'sanctions' against those who try to mess over the clan. Temples also might do this sort of thing, but they usually have the assassins' clans or their own temple guards and younger staff do the dirty work. Legions tend to react badly, and simply crush anyone who annoys them.

Everybody wants to keep the Imperium out of their affairs; once the OAL gets in the door, they tend to ask all sorts of questions. Everybody goes to pretty far lengths to keep the Imperium out - cheaper to hire player-characters to deal with the problem!

An example was the guy I killed in Khirgar for insulting people at a party; everybody, including his clan-elders, thought he was being a jerk. if he'd been drunk, he would have been excused, but he was sober - just stupid. I challenged him, and he got stupider by exceeding the terms of the duel; he got dead, in front of a pretty good audience, and his clan thanked me for settling the problem for them.

Mind you, one does not just go around killing people at parties; it does get one talked about. One has to have a pretty good reason, and unfortunately there are plenty of stupid people around.

Zu'ur is a huge no-no, as it's going to attract the immediate and dire attention of the Imperium. A clan / temple/ etc. will move very fast, very hard, and very, very quietly to deal with this issue. They will do their best to hide the addict until they die or (rarely) recover, and kill the supplier as fast as they can find them. The alternative is having the OAL in for a visit, which gets very nasty very quickly. Adventures ensue, as you'd expect, and you have to deal with the Hlyss...

Is this what you're looking for?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;844816I love good parody, but in my book "good" parody is only written by somebody who really, deeply loves the source.

Like "Bored of the Rings."  Remove the dated drug and political jokes, and there are sections in it that make it obvious that gang really, really loved Lord of the Rings.  You'd have to, to read it that many times to be able to parody it that well.

"We boggies are a hairy folk, we love to eat until we choke;"
"Sing gobble, gobble, gobble!"
"Loving all like friend and brother, we hardly ever eat each other..."
"Sing gobble, gobble, gobble!"

"A Unicef Clearasil,
Gibberish an' drivel,
With a hey dey derry Tums Gardol..."