Any multiple of 100 SDC will do 1 point of MDC damage per 100.

The thing that I'm confused about with the massive SDC/ MDC thing is what happens to AR in this case since MDC objects don't have an AR. I mean, theoretically, I've never seen it come up but if your missile does say 250 SDC, if this is 'equivalent' to MDC does it ignore AR the way a real MDC attack does? Or should you pull out the Conversion Book and give the MD target an AR? And if not, should it also then ignore AR on SDC targets ?

SDC dmg versus SD targets.  AR applies.
MDC dmg versus MD targets.  AR does not apply.

SD doesn't convert to MD, it is just able to, with sufficient damage, harm an MDC structure (however lightly).

Quote from: Bloodwolf;837164SDC dmg versus SD targets.  AR applies.
MDC dmg versus MD targets.  AR does not apply.

SD doesn't convert to MD, it is just able to, with sufficient damage, harm an MDC structure (however lightly).

MD vs SDC, AR does NOT apply.

But SDC vs. MD ?
(assuming SDC damage is 100+ in one attack).

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;837168But SDC vs. MD ?
(assuming SDC damage is 100+ in one attack).

MD does not have an AR.  If according to everyone else (I no longer have my Rifts books, damn bugs and mice...) a 1D4x100 rocket (for example) does 100 SD, then the MDC object takes 1 damage.

Probably. The weird thing here would be, then, that the 100 damage rocket could do a point of damage to the MD creature, but might bounce off an SDC creature due to AR.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;837173Probably. The weird thing here would be, then, that the 100 damage rocket could do a point of damage to the MD creature, but might bounce off an SDC creature due to AR.

Actually, you got it wrong : if a weapon has MD capacity, it will ignore any AR except the cyber armor A.R. which 16. And the cyber armor is made of M.D resistant material.

Quote from: yabaziou;837174Actually, you got it wrong : if a weapon has MD capacity, it will ignore any AR except the cyber armor A.R. which 16. And the cyber armor is made of M.D resistant material.

Actually, the problem with that is that...  The A.R. 16 applies to anything that isn't the Cyber-armour.  The AR is supposed to represent the shot hitting something fleshy rather than the armour.

It's a messy patch for a system that didn't think it through.

I love a lot of stuff of Palladium's, as the Pundit said, the attitude is a big part of it, but the writing just engages you on a level that's interesting for me.

But the system?  That's a kludge that's best left behind in the AD&D days.  Which is also why I'm happy and hopeful that the Savage World's version comes out soon.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;837173Probably. The weird thing here would be, then, that the 100 damage rocket could do a point of damage to the MD creature, but might bounce off an SDC creature due to AR.

All Palladium games that I know of use ablative armor. Damage from attack rolls under the AR value is applied to the armor; above the AR value, to the wearer.

It's been a while, but IIRC, MDC supposedly does not use AR. If you have a 30 MDC bionic limb amd get shot by a laser pistol while naked, damage is applied to the limb before you get vaporized. Cyber-armor is a very specific exception, having an AR of 16, meaning a metal arm protects you better than subdermal metal plates implanted all over your body specifically to protect you; classic Rifts.

Quote from: yabaziou;837174Actually, you got it wrong : if a weapon has MD capacity, it will ignore any AR except the cyber armor A.R. which 16. And the cyber armor is made of M.D resistant material.

That's a reasonable way to rule it but I'm not entirely convinced that's what the rules-as-written are.

Quote from: The Butcher;837197All Palladium games that I know of use ablative armor. Damage from attack rolls under the AR value is applied to the armor; above the AR value, to the wearer.

It's been a while, but IIRC, MDC supposedly does not use AR. If you have a 30 MDC bionic limb amd get shot by a laser pistol while naked, damage is applied to the limb before you get vaporized. Cyber-armor is a very specific exception, having an AR of 16, meaning a metal arm protects you better than subdermal metal plates implanted all over your body specifically to protect you; classic Rifts.

Wow really?? Dammit Kevin! I didn't know that.
On the AR though - body armour is ablative yes, but creatures with an AR work a bit differently, and just take no damage if you roll under the AR.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;837202That's a reasonable way to rule it but I'm not entirely convinced that's what the rules-as-written are.

Then you should refer directly to the Rifts corebook (the orginal or the 2005 edition, pick your poison !).

MD is overkill and S.D armor rating do not apply.

And yes, the cyber amor rule sucks big time ! Even if it assumes that any hit is done in the main body and cyber armor is on the main body (and designed to protect it), Kevin S. felt the need for this stupid rule ... Ah, the humanity ! ^_^

Honestly, the Palladium system is not that wonky and many other rule systems have a lot of flaws ...

To add confusion, there are two different types of A.R. in Heroes Unlimited.  You have personal and bionic A.R. which reduces the S.D.C. of the armor if it's less than the A.R., otherwise it goes to personal S.D.C.  Robots and vehicle A.R. does no damage unless it exceeds the A.R.  

The first use of M.D.C. I am aware of, was Robotech.  Where M.D.C. was used to differentiate between Robotechnology & full-size Zentraedi vs. pre-Robotechnology & humans.  This starts breaking down a little when later supplements such as Southern Cross came out with the introduction of the Cyclones and personal M.D.C. armor.  

Both of these worked but the mishmashing of the Rifts setting causes some oddities because M.D.C. is no longer being used to differentiate just scale.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;837173Probably. The weird thing here would be, then, that the 100 damage rocket could do a point of damage to the MD creature, but might bounce off an SDC creature due to AR.

This is exactly how it works.  SDC armor will take damage, though (and not simply bounce off).  Just think of MDC as unbreachable super armor (until it is destroyed).

Quote from: The Butcher;837197It's been a while, but IIRC, MDC supposedly does not use AR. If you have a 30 MDC bionic limb amd get shot by a laser pistol while naked, damage is applied to the limb before you get vaporized.

This would only apply if you were shot in the limb.  Rifts does not have a standard/random hit location roll.  All shots are assumed to be at the main body, unless they are a called shot.

Things Palladium Got Right: making nerds argue about their rules online.