Quote from: Christopher Brady;829841Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the book, it's why I bought it, it's got great flavour and a great atmosphere, it's just some of the philosophy behind it that I'm questioning.

That and the severe lack of named Ninja clans/enemies, especially for an Iron Age setting.  I've created a couple for my game, and I appreciate that the bestiary section lists a mook template for them, but you should have at least one Yakuza clan mentioned that uses them.

It's coming in the follow-up...

Quote from: APKlosky;829860It's coming in the follow-up...

You've mentioned that, but when you do the prerequisite second edition, might I suggest having one group, not all of them, but at least one criminal organization that uses ninja, preferably Japanese?  Like the one Japanese corporation you listed.

Again, just a suggestion, do it or not, it's your book, your game.  Do it as you like.

I've gotten the impression that by "Iron Age" comics the game means gritty  street level superheroes like Vigilante, Punisher, Daredevil, Luke Cage and similar characters not the overall "Iron Age" of darker more cynical (even nihilistic) comics of all levels (For example, the Authority and Miracle Man). Is that correct?

Quote from: APKlosky;829778Sorry, Christopher--didn't mean to cross-post!  

@3rik--I really wish I could give a better answer for you.  I haven't been able to get word from Angus or anyone at Chronicle City since September of last year, despite numerous emails and Facebook messages.  I have a limited amount of print copies in my possession, as I'm able to order them (at my own expense) and resell them at the conventions I demo CSW at.  As for the full print run?  I wish I knew.

I think it's time to dump them, and do it yourself. Considering they did the same thing to Steven Trustrum of Misfit Studios, then Joshua Kubli of Imperfekt Games with their books, after 8 months of no contact (and who knows how many sales you might have had during that time), don't you think it's time to just do it yourself?

Quote from: Nexus;829923I've gotten the impression that by "Iron Age" comics the game means gritty  street level superheroes like Vigilante, Punisher, Daredevil, Luke Cage and similar characters not the overall "Iron Age" of darker more cynical (even nihilistic) comics of all levels (For example, the Authority and Miracle Man). Is that correct?

Actually, in the case of Cold Steel Wardens, you're dead on, it's the former, if you ignore the whole "PC should fear death" thing that crops up.  It's about hard decisions, including whether or not to kill.  And most characters will have some major disadvantage.

But I do have my issues, past the sense that this game is less Iron Age, more Comic Noir, for example:

The permanent damage charts are cute, but the issue I have with them is that it takes a very specific crew to understand and deal as some of them are irrecoverable, and you may as well kill the characters anyway, if you don't have that special group of players.

And personally, I find the rules system a tad too lethal for a proper Iron Age game.  I don't mind the risk of death or permanent injury in superhero game, but it should not come from less than 5 goons at once, guns or no.  For example, all the characters that you listed, Nexus, are mostly solo heroes.  The Punisher, the Vigilante, definitely Daredevil, even Luke Cage and Iron Fist, run solo a good chunk of their time, and they often take entire gangs on and win.

Once more, though I want to stress this is my opinion and mine only, but I'm more of the mind that in an Iron Age game, it's how the players deal with the situations for their characters rather than having them risk or even fear death the moment they gear up.  Death is always a possibility, but most Vigilantes accept their own as part of the risk they take when they put on the mask.  They want to stop the crimes, but sometimes, stopping a crime can hurt more than letting it continue.

Quote from: urbwar;830024I think it's time to dump them, and do it yourself. Considering they did the same thing to Steven Trustrum of Misfit Studios, then Joshua Kubli of Imperfekt Games with their books, after 8 months of no contact (and who knows how many sales you might have had during that time), don't you think it's time to just do it yourself?

Rogue Games moved back with Studio 2 Publishing after their Chronicle City debacle. Perhaps that's a viable option for you as well, APKlosky?

Studio 2 was on my shortlist when I was approaching publishers, but I asked Angus first, given the relationship that we had while I was freelancing for Cubicle 7 on The Laundry Files books.  Angus was literally the "go-to" guy then, which I why I felt confident signing the contract with him.  We see where that's led...

Quote from: APKlosky;830252Studio 2 was on my shortlist when I was approaching publishers, but I asked Angus first, given the relationship that we had while I was freelancing for Cubicle 7 on The Laundry Files books.  Angus was literally the "go-to" guy then, which I why I felt confident signing the contract with him.  We see where that's led...

I'm sure Angus has his reasons, but that doesn't make it any less inconvenient.

Has anyone here placed any orders with Chronicle City recently and received their books yet?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;830037Actually, in the case of Cold Steel Wardens, you're dead on, it's the former, if you ignore the whole "PC should fear death" thing that crops up.  It's about hard decisions, including whether or not to kill.  And most characters will have some major disadvantage.

But I do have my issues, past the sense that this game is less Iron Age, more Comic Noir, for example:

The permanent damage charts are cute, but the issue I have with them is that it takes a very specific crew to understand and deal as some of them are irrecoverable, and you may as well kill the characters anyway, if you don't have that special group of players.

And personally, I find the rules system a tad too lethal for a proper Iron Age game.  I don't mind the risk of death or permanent injury in superhero game, but it should not come from less than 5 goons at once, guns or no.  For example, all the characters that you listed, Nexus, are mostly solo heroes.  The Punisher, the Vigilante, definitely Daredevil, even Luke Cage and Iron Fist, run solo a good chunk of their time, and they often take entire gangs on and win.

Once more, though I want to stress this is my opinion and mine only, but I'm more of the mind that in an Iron Age game, it's how the players deal with the situations for their characters rather than having them risk or even fear death the moment they gear up.  Death is always a possibility, but most Vigilantes accept their own as part of the risk they take when they put on the mask.  They want to stop the crimes, but sometimes, stopping a crime can hurt more than letting it continue.

Interesting now I am more curious what the creator's thoughts are this on subject.

While I disagree with Christopher's endpoint, I can understand and appreciate his viewpoint and see exactly where he's coming from.

A good deal of the street-level supers contain significant echoes to the noir/pulp  detective stories of the '30s.  Watchmen, at its core, is a detective story, albeit one with masks and a nuclear-powered man.  Sin City is a crime serial.  Batman: The Long Halloween is as much of a detective tale as much as it is a yearlong romp through Batman's rogues' gallery.

In the context of CSW, it's true--players need to know and accept the premise from the start that a lucky gunshot can take out even an experience, powerful metahuman Hero.  And, certainly, if a Hero gets caught unawares by a group of mooks, it's likely that they won't survive the utter mugging they receive.  To me, that's why heroes team up in the first place--it's always going to be easier to take on the mob when you have someone to watch your back and help out with portions of an investigation that aren't necessarily your own strong suit.

In related news, I actually received an email today from Angus!  CSW is currently on sale at several stores in the UK and Germany, with a US print set to hit distributors soon.

Quote from: APKlosky;830388While I disagree with Christopher's endpoint, I can understand and appreciate his viewpoint and see exactly where he's coming from.

A good deal of the street-level supers contain significant echoes to the noir/pulp  detective stories of the '30s.  Watchmen, at its core, is a detective story, albeit one with masks and a nuclear-powered man.  Sin City is a crime serial.  Batman: The Long Halloween is as much of a detective tale as much as it is a yearlong romp through Batman's rogues' gallery.

In the context of CSW, it's true--players need to know and accept the premise from the start that a lucky gunshot can take out even an experience, powerful metahuman Hero.  And, certainly, if a Hero gets caught unawares by a group of mooks, it's likely that they won't survive the utter mugging they receive.  To me, that's why heroes team up in the first place--it's always going to be easier to take on the mob when you have someone to watch your back and help out with portions of an investigation that aren't necessarily your own strong suit.

Is there anyway to dial mook lethality down?

APKlosky ran CSW for my wife and I at GenCon last year, and we had a great time. I'm planning on running it myself soon and will be reviewing it.

I for one do not mind a deadlier tone. Are beginning characters assumed to have been crimefighting for awhile, or mostly rookies and those new to vigilantism?

Quote from: APKlosky;830388While I disagree with Christopher's endpoint, I  can understand and appreciate his viewpoint and see exactly where he's  coming from.

A good deal of the street-level supers contain significant echoes to the  noir/pulp  detective stories of the '30s.  Watchmen, at its core, is a  detective story, albeit one with masks and a nuclear-powered man.  Sin  City is a crime serial.  Batman: The Long Halloween is as much of a  detective tale as much as it is a yearlong romp through Batman's rogues'  gallery.

In the context of CSW, it's true--players need to know and accept the  premise from the start that a lucky gunshot can take out even an  experience, powerful metahuman Hero.  And, certainly, if a Hero gets  caught unawares by a group of mooks, it's likely that they won't survive  the utter mugging they receive.  To me, that's why heroes team up in  the first place--it's always going to be easier to take on the mob when  you have someone to watch your back and help out with portions of an  investigation that aren't necessarily your own strong suit.

I  actually find the noir tone appealing. It sets this game apart from  other pulp/superhero games that I've looked into. But I'm not  particularly knowledgeable on the genre, so I may not be as critical  when it comes to "strict" genre emulation.

Quote from: APKlosky;830388In related news, I actually received an email  today from Angus!  CSW is currently on sale at several stores in the UK  and Germany, with a US print set to hit distributors soon.

Congratulations on this good news!

Quote from: Dan Davenport;830530APKlosky ran CSW for my wife and I at GenCon last year, and we had a great time. I'm planning on running it myself soon and will be reviewing it.

I like what I've seen of it so far. Even though I'm generally into somewhat more rules-light stuff I plan to pick up a print copy. Pity there's no attractive print + pdf bundle deal anywhere except at Chronicle City, at least not that I have seen.

Let me just post my experience.

My crew was a four man team.

One healing factor super (sorta) tough guy, with unique rage issues called Overkill.  (He stole drugs, because his healing regeneration hurt to the point of mindless rage.  Hard drugs soothed him)

A husband and wife former prison guards team. She was a sonic manipulator, but her forcefield required her to hum, she was called Bahnshee, and her husband (a fellow Prison guard) was The Executioner (a punisher wannabe), no powers, but a lot of skill with firearms and combat (although no more than the system allowed.)

The last was a remake of The Hornet pre-made, instead of a Kung Fu swords woman, we made her into a Ninja (which according to Mr. Klosky, when we talked on the Blackfall Press facebook page, was meant as an infiltrator in the first place.)

They died first mission, against five Rojo Bastardes gangers with pistols. Bear in mind, the two men, and Bahnshee had assault weapons. Initiative simply said, 'No!' And that was the end of that game for us. Admittedly, we had average to low rolls on the 'Hero' side, but still. If average rolls can't hit a target in a Super Hero game, I'm out.

But the book itself is well done, and it has an interesting city for a background, and an excellent 'how to build investigation missions' section.  I'm planning on converting to another system, at some point.