Quote from: Bilharzia;829086the only Legend publication I've bought was Spider God's Bride which was awful, not saying they all are, but that thing was poison.

Just as an aside, are you referencing the original (bad) Legend conversion or the subsequent (by all accounts much better) revised version?

I've only ever had the original D&D version but would obviously like one with Legend stats if the Mongoose didn't botch fixing their previous botch.

Quote from: Bilharzia;829200It's less powerful, simple as that.

How much less powerful? Is it like being limited to Bladesharp-4? Like being limited to Bladesharp-1? Or is it just mechanically useless?

Quote from: Simlasa;829202Just as an aside, are you referencing the original (bad) Legend conversion or the subsequent (by all accounts much better) revised version?

I've only ever had the original D&D version but would obviously like one with Legend stats if the Mongoose didn't botch fixing their previous botch.

Both, although the revised is definitely better. I bought the first Legend conversion when it first came out and like you already had the d20 from Xoth.net. The first attempt was so bad it put me off Mongoose for life. The fixes were ok but the Legend version also cut material from the original which in some cases made the conversion actually worse to use because someone who *only* had the Legend version was missing sections from the d20... I had already started my RQ6 conversion so was interested what a "professional" publisher would do. Holy cow, I was not prepared. A shame because there was potential there.

Edit: if you wanted to run it from the d20, I would just use the RQ6 Encounter generator, generate whatever you think is suitable and go with that. I think you would probably get a better result than even the revised Legend edition, and do your own work to fill in the rest. The thing is .... it's $5 MORE expensive even now than Monster Island which is entirely original, the Legend version is JUST a conversion and at that, half-hearted.

Quote from: Bren;829203How much less powerful? Is it like being limited to Bladesharp-4? Like being limited to Bladesharp-1? Or is it just mechanically useless?

Not at all useless but definitely and deliberately lower powered, for example, Folk Magic version of Bladesharp increases the damage step by one die, eg. Great Axe is 2d6+2, with Bladesharp becomes 2d8+2, no stacking, 1mp. The rationale for the change is that Folk magic isn't as powerful but is truly 'folk' - ie. low-ish powered generally used magic which is trumped by more powerful sorcery, divine, spirit, if any of those are used in your campaign setting.

RE: high level battle magic NPCs - yep, I'm talking about RQ3.

Quote from: Bilharzia;829205I had already started my RQ6 conversion so was interested what a "professional" publisher would do. Holy cow, I was not prepared. A shame because there was potential there.

*sigh* fucking Mongoose...

Quote from: Bren;829191That sort of highly stacked spell casting was more of a problem for sorcery as I recall.

There was a mistake in the Games Workshop reprinting for the Multispell skill, which meant that firing off simultaneous two Venom Intensity 4 spells cost 5 magic points (4+1 per extra spell) rather than 8 (4 per spell).

Since many spells had an effect even if you resisted the spell,  you can see where this is going - sorcerers found it far more effective to "machine-gun" a lot of low-Intensity spells at a single target than to cast a single high-Intensity spell.

Pre-internet of course, so we never saw any errata...

Also, Folk Magic.  I like that it's low-powered and has a single effect.  A lot of the spells now have descriptions of mundane uses - Bladesharp for sharpening a tool for example, or Bludgeon to help with threshing.  It feels like everyday minor charms.  

Previously, and I'm thinking RQ3 here, there was a bit of a metagame going on with spells like Heal, where everyone really wanted Heal 6 to reattached severed limbs.  Now it will cure minor wounds but only stabilise something major.  And give pain relief for bellyache too

Quote from: Bilharzia;829205Not at all useless but definitely and deliberately lower powered, for example, Folk Magic version of Bladesharp increases the damage step by one die, eg. Great Axe is 2d6+2, with Bladesharp becomes 2d8+2, no stacking, 1mp. The rationale for the change is that Folk magic isn't as powerful but is truly 'folk' - ie. low-ish powered generally used magic which is trumped by more powerful sorcery, divine, spirit, if any of those are used in your campaign setting.

How long does it last?

Unless it is even shorter in duration that the 10 melee rounds for Battlemagic/Spirit Magic in RQ1-3, that Folk Magic spell is Magic Point for Magic Point actually more powerful than Bladesharp. For 1 Magic Point of Folk Magic you get an increase in average damage of 2 points and an increase in maximum damage of 4 points. In RQ1-3 you would get an increase of 1 point average and maximum damage for a 1MP spell and even with a rare magic item focusing crystal that doubles the effect you would still only increase the maximum damage by 2 points not 4 points.

Quote from: Momotaro;829209Previously, and I'm thinking RQ3 here, there was a bit of a metagame going on with spells like Heal, where everyone really wanted Heal 6 to reattached severed limbs.  Now it will cure minor wounds but only stabilise something major.  And give pain relief for bellyache too

That wasn't just an RQ3 thing.  In Runequest 2 (and likely RQ1 as well) people tended to acquire either Healing-2 (since it was required to automatically stop bleeding) or Healing-6 (since it repaired/reattached limbs). I always assumed the effect of Healing-2 and Healing-6 was known in Glorantha not just in the rules. So I wouldn't call that a metagame effect. I assumed all trained healers as well as anyone who did or received a lot of healing (like warriors, soldiers, PCs, or wise old folks in your village or tribe) knew what Healing-2 and Healing-6 did.

Quote from: Momotaro;829209Also, Folk Magic.  I like that it's low-powered and has a single effect.  A lot of the spells now have descriptions of mundane uses - Bladesharp for sharpening a tool for example, or Bludgeon to help with threshing.  It feels like everyday minor charms.  

Previously, and I'm thinking RQ3 here, there was a bit of a metagame going on with spells like Heal, where everyone really wanted Heal 6 to reattached severed limbs.  Now it will cure minor wounds but only stabilise something major.  And give pain relief for bellyache too

Yes I get the same sense with Folk magic, I think Luck Points have gone a long way in taking away the desire for the must-have Heal 6 spell, and there's less of a zero sum game there used to be with protection, bladesharp, bludgeon, pinging around.

Quote from: Bren;829211How long does it last?

Unless it is even shorter in duration that the 10 melee rounds for Battlemagic/Spirit Magic in RQ1-3, that Folk Magic spell is Magic Point for Magic Point actually more powerful than Bladesharp. For 1 Magic Point of Folk Magic you get an increase in average damage of 2 points and an increase in maximum damage of 4 points.

Yep, in this case it's not too bad. It would be better to say "less prone to abuse" since the Folk version doesn't get any better than that, whereas the old Battle magic does, as long as you have the MP. The Folk version also doesn't boost the hit %, where Bladesharp 4 is giving you +20% to hit as well as +4 damage. Its a good example of how the system has been re-thought.

Edit: duration is "per scene" which could be an encounter. To give another example, Protection is now -1d3 damage, lasting until the first hit.

Quote from: Bilharzia;829215Yep, in this case it's not too bad. It would be better to say "less prone to abuse" since the Folk version doesn't get any better than that, whereas the old Battle magic does, as long as you have the MP. The Folk version also doesn't boost the hit %, where Bladesharp 4 is giving you +20% to hit as well as +4 damage. Its a good example of how the system has been re-thought.

Edit: duration is "per scene" which could be an encounter. To give another example, Protection is now -1d3 damage, lasting until the first hit.

So for bladesharp it has the same or longer* duration, damage is higher, but no bonus to attack chance. Sounds like it is as powerful and in a few cases (long scenes) a bit more powerful. But limited to only 1 point so less powerful in potential and for tough characters.

For protection it has the same or longer* duration, higher power for one hit, but gone after the hit (which is how countermagic worked in RQ1-3).


* I recall battlemagic spells like bladesharp and protection wearing off in a few of our combats, especially combats that started at range or involved mounts, caves, or fortifications.

Quote from: Bren;829219So for bladesharp it has the same or longer* duration, damage is higher, but no bonus to attack chance. Sounds like it is as powerful and in a few cases (long scenes) a bit more powerful. But limited to only 1 point so less powerful in potential and for tough characters.

For protection it has the same or longer* duration, higher power for one hit, but gone after the hit (which is how countermagic worked in RQ1-3).


* I recall battlemagic spells like bladesharp and protection wearing off in a few of our combats, especially combats that started at range or involved mounts, caves, or fortifications.

In this case, Protection is quite a bit weaker in Folk, since the Battle magic version is going to stay there across a whole fight, so even at one point, its stronger than the Folk version after 2 hits. In RQ6, if you want the same kind of power, this is exactly why you might want to use Sorcery instead.

Duration is mostly the same across spells. RQ Essentials is there for download if you want to take a look.

Quote from: Bilharzia;829205Edit: if you wanted to run it from the d20, I would just use the RQ6 Encounter generator, generate whatever you think is suitable and go with that. I think you would probably get a better result than even the revised Legend edition, and do your own work to fill in the rest.

Since you brought up running the d20 version of a module in RQ/BRP...  Any tips for that sort of thing in general, more on the design side than the nitty-gritty of converting stats, etc.?  There are a lot of good (or at least decent) D&D/d20/OSR modules out there which I've considered adapting to RQ6, but there's a major difference in design philosophy regarding combat.  As in D&D-family games tend to assume multiple major fights, while RQ6 seems much less forgiving about repeated combats, especially if you're severely outnumbered, which also seems to happen a lot in D&D-style modules.

Quote from: Bren;829211For 1 Magic Point of Folk Magic you get an increase in average damage of 2 points and an increase in maximum damage of 4 points.

Note that the increase isn't always that large, it's just an artifact of the chosen example having been a greataxe.  If it had been, say, a shortsword, the increase would be from 1d6 to 1d8 (+1 average/+2 max damage).  So, in RQ6, Bladesharp the weapons doing 2 dice of damage first, I guess.  (Or those doing 1d10 damage, which steps up to 2d6.)

Quote from: nDervish;829277Note that the increase isn't always that large, it's just an artifact of the chosen example having been a greataxe.

Good point. That does weaken the effect for lower damage weapons.

I'm not sure that I prefer the effect scaling with the size of the weapon instead of being a flat +1 add though.

I had been thinking of picking up Spider God's Bride as well. It's really that bad then? What a shame. It looked really promising.

Quote from: nDervish;829277Since you brought up running the d20 version of a module in RQ/BRP...  Any tips for that sort of thing in general, more on the design side than the nitty-gritty of converting stats, etc.?  There are a lot of good (or at least decent) D&D/d20/OSR modules out there which I've considered adapting to RQ6, but there's a major difference in design philosophy regarding combat.  As in D&D-family games tend to assume multiple major fights, while RQ6 seems much less forgiving about repeated combats, especially if you're severely outnumbered, which also seems to happen a lot in D&D-style modules.

I think SGB is an exception because Morten gave it a sword & sorcery setting which moved it quite far away from typical d&d  - magic mysterious rare and weird, monsters are monstrous (and few), combat is deadly, healing magic very scarce. All of which ironically makes it better suited for a RQ/BRP game in the first place. So I dont think I picked up much useful converting this, beyond the npcs and dealing with magic, which modules are you thinking would make good conversions for RQ6?

So is the d20 version actually a better buy, even if you want to run it with RuneQuest?