Quote from: Shipyard Locked;822457If you were to merge SWN's primary assumptions with 5e's mechanics for broader appeal, what choices would you make?

I'd ditch them both and play Traveller instead.

Quote from: jeff37923;829039I'd ditch them both and play Traveller instead.

Tried that too (Mongoose), before SWN in fact. I have a faint but defining memory of people getting seriously hung up on all all those nitty gritty interconnected steps during chargen, followed by groans at the lack of mechanical character progression and no kool powarz.

QuoteIf you wanted to give them more mechanical muscle, it wouldn't be hard to just slap on a 5e-esque ability progression.

That would certainly be less labor intensive. Hmm...

By the way, sorry to prod, but in the most flattering sense possible I just want to remind you there are folks who'd love to see that 2nd edition with all the errata we've discussed.

I'd keep SWN grittiness, personally. I would add a few 5e things, but mostly for ease of GM adjudication. Mainly: Passive checks, Adv/Disadv, Obscurement/Lighting, Cover, Exhaustion, Suffocation, Mounts, etc.

As for player widgets... well, 5e gives a solid template on how to create new alien races (+2 here, +1 there, a bennie, a boon, a skill/tool, done). I'd keep SWN re-roll HD to determine next lvl HP, as 5e's half HD +1 is obviously the better choice on average and really craps on SWN fragility. However, Short/Long Rests might actually work for SWN because of the assumed greater medical advances.

Skip most of the new class ideas, but definitely embrace backgrounds. That's another easy template. In fact, they give advice on the framework on Customizing Backgrounds within that chapter.

I'm sort of not sold on 5e's XP rate, and you don't need to speed along to Class Archetype level (3rd) all that soon before you hashed out other options, so take it very slow. As to classes SWN is Fighter, Rogue, M-User base, 5e has a pretty easy Archetype breakdown for Fighter & Rogue, and Psion could just specialize on certain Sci/Devs — though that may require more psionic list sorting...

Champion Fighter is dirt easy. Eldritch Knight is also dirt easy (splash some Psion). Battle Master is a bit hard as blaster combat doesn't lend itself too well to flashy maneuvers (the movie Equilibrium withstanding)...

edit: Oh! No Skilled class Sneak Attack! Keep 'em tied to their tech casting and skills. Thieves' Cant translates to "elite speak," Expertise relates to Skilled natural progression, Cunning Action is solid all-around...

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;829003Be that as it may, 5e (and 4th) hit the nail on the head with its market research: Most players like leveling up, and most players want a new whizz-bang feature at each level. WotC's conclusions match my own experience. You might not like it, and I might not like it, but there is no denying my SWN pitches failed on those grounds.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;829006Sadly yes. It's idiotic in a Spinal Tap "This goes to eleven" way, but my local player base likes to see big and rising numbers. 5e's flatter math made them wary, but not as much as SWN's, and compensated for that by having lots of class features and running faster.

Fire your players and get better ones. Or retrain them by grinding them down with excruciatingly slow XP progression.

Or nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Quote from: Opaopajr;829069Fire your players and get better ones.

If I tried any sort of tabletop ultimatum on my friends they'd just "fire" me from DMing and "hire" me back for World of Warcraft raids or something like that. RPGs with busy adults have to be a two-way street.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;829096If I tried any sort of tabletop ultimatum on my friends they'd just "fire" me from DMing and "hire" me back for World of Warcraft raids or something like that. RPGs with busy adults have to be a two-way street.

It does sound like you've got a gripes with them though... in regards to gaming preferences. Sometimes that's OK... sometimes it festers into wider resentment.

Okay, just for the fun of it, here's an example of a buffed-up 5e-esque Warrior class that I threw together in 20 minutes. HD, attack bonuses, and skills all remain the same, but special ability progressions now work like this:

Level 1: Gain Veteran's Luck, if this is your initial class- multiclassers don't get this. Also pick an archetype and gain its basic ability.
Level 2: Choose a perk.
Level 3: You're Hard to Kill; automatically stabilize if not blown to pieces
Level 4: Gain an archetype ability or pick a new archetype.
Level 5: Choose a perk.
Level 6: You're a Lucky Shot; once per fight, skip the hit roll and take an automatic 20.
Level 7: Gain an archetype ability or pick a new archetype.
Level 8: Choose a perk.
Level 9: You're Briefly Invincible. Once per day, for one round, every enemy attack against you misses.
Level 10: Gain an archetype ability or pick a new archetype.
Level 11: Choose a perk.
Level 12: You're a Reaper: When you attack, you can do so twice.
Level 13+: Rinse and repeat, but no new class abilities like those gained at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, and 12.

Perks
Controlled Paranoia: You are never surprised by an ambush, even waking from a sound sleep just before it strikes.
Hard-Bitten: When you roll hit points for a level, count any results of 1 or 2 as 3.
Friends in Barracks: Gain +1 to social skill checks with all military or martial NPCs. Once per session, the PC can win an automatic friendly reaction from such an NPC unless it's entirely inappropriate.
Second Skin: You are always perfectly comfortable in armor, and can even sleep in it without hindrance. Armor counts as 1 fewer point of encumbrance, to a minimum of 0.
Iron Constitution: On your first failed Physical Effect save of the day, automatically succeed instead.
Last Man Standing: Keep functioning normally for one round after being reduced to 0 hit points, provided you haven't been blown to bits or otherwise dismembered.
Guardian Arm: Once per fight, take a weapon hit in place of a comrade within 10 meters. You automatically move in front of them or otherwise shield them from the attack.
Shellcracker: You know how to target weak spots, and your attacks are able to affect even enemies in powered armor or assault suits, regardless of the weapon's tech level or the use of unarmed combat. Against vehicles and other hardened targets, your normal weapons count as gunnery weapons, with damage halved and rounded down before application. Gunnery weapons against vehicles roll twice and take the better damage.
Shrug It Off: After a fight, regain 1 hit point per level. You can only shrug off damage inflicted during that fight, and you can't shrug off environmental or other sources of damage.

Archetypes:

Blademaster: You wield primitive weapons with elan, either as a barbarian introduced to modern society or as a duelist devoted to more traditional means of combat. Primitive low-tech weapons in your hands can harm even foes in powered armor. Roll twice for damage with primitive weapons and take the better result.

Lightning draw: All your primitive weapons always count as Readied, even if treated as stowed. When combat starts, you can roll Initiative twice and take the better result.

Gun Parry: All enemies within melee range must roll any ranged attacks twice and take the worst hit roll, as you deflect their weapon barrels and move too close to track.

Kill Shot: If you have two full rounds to prepare a ranged shot at a target that isn't aware of your presence, your weapon counts as a sniper rifle; on a hit, they must make a saving throw versus Physical Effect at a penalty equal to your Combat/Primitive skill or die instantly. If they survive, they take maximum damage.

Precision Blow: When using primitive weapons, an enemy target's armor class can never be better than 5, barring superhuman dexterity on their part.

Gunner: You cherish your rifle or plasma caster. You can reload a ranged weapon automatically as a free action. With a ranged weapon, you never do less than half maximum damage on a hit, rounded up.

Snap Shot: At the start of combat, before initiative is resolved, you get one free attack with any readied ranged weapon.

Steady Aim: One round per combat, you can focus with a ranged weapon and target any enemy as if they had an armor class of 9.

Faultless Aim: When shooting at an inanimate object or unaware enemy, roll twice and take the better hit and damage rolls.

Kill Shot: If you have two full rounds to prepare a ranged shot at a target that isn't aware of your presence, your weapon counts as a sniper rifle; on a hit, they must make a saving throw versus Physical Effect at a penalty equal to your relevant Combat skill or die instantly. If they survive, they take maximum damage.

Commander: You are a leader of men, women, and tentacular things. Whenever you have at least one comrade with you, you and every other ally within your group gains a +1 bonus to hit and a +2 bonus to Morale.

Predictive Awareness: Once per fight, ask the GM what the enemies you see are trying to do. The GM must describe their general combat goals and tactics, at least for the next round.

Terrifying Presence: Any Morale checks the commander or their allies force are taken with a -1 penalty by the enemy.

Trustworthy: Gain a +1 bonus to social skill checks when acting in the role of a protector or leader. Once per day, automatically convince an NPC of the intellectual truth of something you believe is true, if that conviction is at all compatible with their emotional investments.

Read Opposition: With a glance, you can identify the leaders and important persons in a group, even in the absence of outward insignia. You can determine the hit dice, armor class, and attack bonus of an opponent with one round of observing them in action, either combat or other plausible exertion.