Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;825694I think there's an element of "battered spouse syndrome" involved, if you identify too strongly with a community or a game, only to realize later that you're involved with a bunch of abusive tools. In my case, leaving the community was a way to stop letting the so-called "fans" defined how I did my gaming, what was "right" and what was "badwrongfun."

That's kinda how I came to feel about D&D back in the Wayback. The D&D fans I was running into locally, once I went off to college, were such massive jerks that I started to avoid any mention that I played the game. The first couple groups I played with were great people... but out in the wild it seemed to be all about maladroids with nasty power fantasies. Once I stepped away, to Traveller and Runequest... rules I liked better anyway... there was a lot less of that. But for years, if someone asked if I played D&D I'd blurt an emphatic "No" because I didn't want to be associated with that crowd.

Quote from: Snowman0147;823985Actually yes.  I had games I wanted to try and the fans just ruin it for me because I don't want to play with them.  The reason why I don't want to play with them is because their are assholes that talk, but don't do the walk.  A lot of these fanboyz tend to be social justice warriors that would screech out diversity one second and tell a black person to shut the fuck up the next second.  There is a reason I don't play a lot of FATE and avoid narration games these days.

Maybe you are just a racist!

Diversity? :banghead:

Quote from: RF Victor;823986Yes! Back in the 90's, even though I was already running it, I quit Vampire: the Masquerade thanks to the local fans and the "game culture" they created for themselves and imposed upon everyone else by virtue of "having the grown-up game women liked" where I played.

My Vampire games were just like regular RPGs, so I got labelled the "imature" Vampire GM (Oops, sorry -- Storyteller!) for not creating the free form improv formless thing they liked to run. Vampire "adventures" with tombs and the mob and fighting werewolves were forbidden! You had to play through these pointless meetings, parties and conclaves and rejoice in this amateur theater of bad dialogue. It was dreadful. It was a dreadful time. Please stop asking random people inside the store "what clan are you." Stop. JUST FUCKING STOP I'M GOING TO FUCKING BRAKE YOUR LEGS IF YOU

Sorry, had a flashback there.  

The developers still think the wod is more "mature" and there are "actually women playing it".

Also the play by post games I saw was just endless conversations, meetings in bars and clubs, parties, clan meetings, covenants meetings, Elysium, Prince's court etc. Going nowhere really. Just people talking about what clothes they wear and what the characters feel like at the moment. My games are more like yours.

Crap this thread has 17 pages!

Quote from: jan paparazzi;825717The developers still think the wod is more "mature" and there are "actually women playing it".

Wow. So WoD managed to do in 1991 what I (and the people I gamed with) had been doing since 1981. Yeah, White Wolf, be careful not to break your arm patting yourself on the back there. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Gwarh;824937Yes

The World of Darkness craze in the Mid 90s. Emo Goths were a major turn off for me. I want action and excitement not a Group Encounter to explore mah feelz.

Yeah or some sort of dark mystery. Occult investigation and weird horror. The strange thing is they are just talking. It isn't even politics (which can be cool); it's just socializing.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;825717The developers still think the wod is more "mature" and there are "actually women playing it".

Even as someone whose groups regularly have at least 50% women, I have to admit that the local LARP did have an overwhelmingly large percentage of women when I attended(70%+ most weeks). That was about 13 or 14 years ago. No clue if that was typical for the time, or if it was just a local oddity.

QuoteAlso the play by post games I saw was just endless conversations, meetings in bars and clubs, parties, clan meetings, covenants meetings, Elysium, Prince's court etc. Going nowhere really. Just people talking about what clothes they wear and what the characters feel like at the moment. My games are more like yours.

Truth! This is exactly what the few weeks I spent giving the LARP a chance were like. And don't forget the chain-smoking! I don't know why anyone would stick with such a dull game. All it gave me were a few hours of boredom followed by a massive headache from being around such a steady stream of smoke.

Quote from: GeekEclectic;825721Truth! This is exactly what the few weeks I spent giving the LARP a chance were like. And don't forget the chain-smoking! I don't know why anyone would stick with such a dull game. All it gave me were a few hours of boredom followed by a massive headache from being around such a steady stream of smoke.

The games aren't dull. The crowd sucks.

Well, I am shitting on the crowd anyway. There is a group in vampire called the Carthians who are like an umbrella version of the Anarchs. They are anti-establishment (aka the feudal system with a prince/senechal/sheriff etc.) and want to replace it with another modern political philosophy.

And then you get discussions like this.

Well, need I say more ...

People at the WW and SnE fora ate it all up. They love this sort of stuff. To me it's just dull. I prefered the geeky plot of the old games over this. At least I could wrap my head around "Technocracy wants to wipe out all magic" vs "Mages want to save the world by preserving magic".

Wod fans are like Tool fans. Good band, but they have some pseudo intelectual lyrics that the fans take way too seriously. They think Tool are sooooo intelligent and the music is so much higher and better than any other kind of music (HOW DARE YOU COMPARE METALLICA TO TOOL? DON'T YOU KNOW THEY CAN PLAY IN 7/8 and in 13/5 AND THEY MADE A SONG ABOUT THE FIB... THE FIBBONIATI... THE FIBBONIARRI SEQUENCE... well the thing from the Da Vinci Code?). They only listen to Tool and A Perfect Circle (with the singer from Tool). Making their own world smaller and smaller.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;825715Maybe you are just a racist!

Diversity? :banghead:

What's wrong with telling a black person to STFU?

Maybe over on rpgnet or whatever it's called, but near as I can tell they're all white liberals who need to protect the rest of us and stand up for us because we lack the ability of gumption to do it for ourselves. It's also fun when they lecture me about my own culture as if they had a fucking clue aside from what they read in textbooks or were told on their guided tours.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;825719Yeah or some sort of dark mystery. Occult investigation and weird horror. The strange thing is they are just talking. It isn't even politics (which can be cool); it's just socializing.

I always wondered why so many games I remember from the 90s (anything relatively modern/futuristic) featured floorplans for dance clubs and concert venues. It seemed like the PCs were meant to 'hang out' in these places but I never caught on to what they'd do there... but I guess 'socializing' might be it.

Then again, maybe the designers just liked drawing up their ideal nightclub.

Quote from: Simlasa;825752I always wondered why so many games I remember from the 90s (anything relatively modern/futuristic) featured floorplans for dance clubs and concert venues. It seemed like the PCs were meant to 'hang out' in these places but I never caught on to what they'd do there... but I guess 'socializing' might be it.

Then again, maybe the designers just liked drawing up their ideal nightclub.

Thoroughness and I believe dance clubs were on the upswing at the time in popularity so why not? Theu make for great meeting areas and large open areas for fights. And places targets and suspects may hang out at. Probably also the modern equivament of a tavern. "You all meet in the dance club"

Quote from: jan paparazzi;825715Maybe you are just a racist!

Diversity? :banghead:

How in the hell can I be a racist when I am not the one telling black people to shut up?  Do you even read my post?  I pointed out that the social justice crowd that makes up the fan base are the ones telling black people to shut up as soon as those black people started to go against the narration that the social justice crowd had created.

(psst! the emoticon is winking!)

Quote from: Ravenswing;824882Heh, yeah.

Not that people haven't already tried various bits of editing malarkey.  I'm modestly proud of being the one responsible for getting the FATAL article booted off of Wikipedia, on the grounds that while it's an article of faith on certain Internet gaming forums that it's neck-and-neck with Mein Kampf and the Dred Scott decision for the evillest thing ever set down on paper, the uninformed opinions of ranting neckbeards don't necessarily translate to fact.

you fucking monster i have never liked you that much but somebody who thinks its ok to remove an artical from wikipida for such a stupid reason is the scum of the earth fuck you man

Quote from: Omega;824492Who said anything about espionage or money? All I've ever seen amounted to base human spitefulness and rivalries.

Aside from TSR screwing with other companies left and right on various levels. Never covert though that I've ever heard of. Corporate screwovers though are a very different story and happen unfortunately too often. And that can, and has involved quite a bit of money lost.

Game companies do though monitor/spy on the fans. Which is also a different matter as well. SJG and WizKids are known because they pointed out that they had observers.

Outside of gaming I've had the misfortune to attend a convention back in the late 90s where one group of artists and publishers sabotaged the convention to try and ruin another group of artists and publishers. The whole con was a disaster. Which lead to the death of the convention which had been going well for 10 years.

keeping an eye on the comunity is just commen sense how else will you know what people like

Quote from: Omega;825065WOTC went out of their way to insult players of previous editions

one does wonder what the hell they were thinking doing that