Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;824917Writing my own RPG really brought back that spark for me. I managed to recapture the bang pop wow! factor that I initially experienced whenever I began playing WFRPG and D&D.

It's like this for me too, only different.

I got a shiny new RPG setting out of the deal, designed for the most enjoyable rules set I could find. And in so doing, I ditched a whole bunch of baggage that I'd accumulated.

What's different now are all the things that are better.

Like actually knowing what the hell I'm doing. When I started out, I had absolutely no idea.

And all the great people I've met who helped me out over the years. Cuz I was pretty much on my own when I started.

And the maturity to just shrug it off when some random maladjusted troll - online or in real life - tries to bring me down. Publishing your own game really thickens your skin.

In some ways, the whole project took me back to the beginning; in other ways, it was actually an improvement.

Quote from: Greentongue;824916By "loose rules" I mean like back at the beginning where there was not an explicit rule/skill for every possible thing.
Less, "Do you have Climbing Skill? You don't? Sorry you'll have to find another way up"
and more "Roll a 10 or better adding any Strength and/or Dex pluses."
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Isn't this mostly predicated on the game system you choose to run?  

If I am using Savage Worlds, climbing checks a' plenty.  

If I am running AD&D, mostly just going to make a judgment call on Str/Dex, class, race, and secondary skills whether the character can climb something.  Maybe have them roll something.

Quote from: Saladman;824919Fair 'nuff.  But I'm not ashamed to ask, because I've known people to use language like that in widely differing ways.  

So, back to option 1 then.  Is there a conversation you've already had with the player, or have you been hoping he'll take the hint?

It is not just "a player". It seems every time I retry a "reboot" there is at least one.  It is not always easy to get people to try something that is not main stream, and when they do, they miss it.

I suppose new shiny rules have a better chance than dusting off the old stuff, no matter if it was "good enough" back then.
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Quote from: Greentongue;824852When I first started playing I had no idea what to expect. I had heard friends talking about their adventures and the stories were like a drug.
I wanted to play too.
The world was my plaything and there was adventure at every turn.

Over the years rules accumulated, expectations solidified and the sparkle faded.

I've tried to recapture the freshness of the original games by trying to introduce little known setting and "loose" rules but one player with
"the baggage of expectations" brings the current jadedness back.

Can it be done? Can the freshness be recreated?
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Not while players are on Facebook during a game. Game time has become too geek-ish and too casual now. They are more like get-togethers than role-play game sessions.

For me it was when we tried new games.  Not every one, but it happened twice after the initial with D&D.


Cut my teeth with D&D. Got that really fun first time type experience again when we played call of Call of Cthulhu.  Such a different game, especially when I was younger and hadn't played too many games.  Same thing happend again with Shadowrun.

Watched it happen with a group of board gamers that I introduced to call of Cthulhu.  Didn't tell them it was that game though.  Told them that it was a mystery themed role playing set in 1920s New England with a hint of horror.  I also minimized die rolling for them.. Worked great for me because I really had to reinvent how I GMed to adults that have never gamed before.

I'm getting that old Sense of Wonder running Mentzer Basic/Expert for my 7 year old son, running a bunch of sandbox Basic Fantasy stuff along with old b/e adventured. Seeing things through a child's eyes is really amazing that way, especially as he 'gets' the game much more intuitively than older jaded players, eg he instinctively pokes & prods stuff without prompting and often guessed what is going on from subtle cues the adventure writer had put in but I hadn't noticed!
It probably helps that I never played b/e much myself, so the elegance of the system is new to me too  - I was gming 1e ad&d with ua back in the day, a far clunkier and less elegant take on d&d.

Quote from: Greentongue;824852When I first started playing I had no idea what to expect. I had heard friends talking about their adventures and the stories were like a drug.
I wanted to play too.
The world was my plaything and there was adventure at every turn.

Over the years rules accumulated, expectations solidified and the sparkle faded.

I've tried to recapture the freshness of the original games by trying to introduce little known setting and "loose" rules but one player with
"the baggage of expectations" brings the current jadedness back.

Can it be done? Can the freshness be recreated?
=

Dungeon Crawl Classics did it for me. The use of the Zocchi dice, the spell tables, there was a lot of stuff in there that reminded me of when I first started playing rpgs. I can't say DCC specifically will work for everybody, but I think there's gold to be mined in how DCC approached the idea.

There's an intrinsic assumption baked into the premise of this thread that what you did at the start was in some way better. I wouldn't touch any of the shit I did back then with a barge pole, it has pretty much no nostalgia value or resonance with what I want to do today. My games of now are vastly more enjoyable than my games of then.

Quote from: Kiero;825154There's an intrinsic assumption baked into the premise of this thread that what you did at the start was in some way better.
I wouldn't touch any of the shit I did back then with a barge pole, it has pretty much no nostalgia value or resonance with what I want to do today.
My games of now are vastly more enjoyable than my games of then.

I my case it is more the "going where no man has gone before" feeling.
Looking back the "game play" may not have been "better" but the feeling of "exploring the unknown" was certainly stronger.

Using new rules may improve the "game play" but that doesn't give me the feeling of "exploring the unknown" I want.

New game settings are more likely but if it isn't "easy to relate to" few people are interested.
The ease is provided by familiarity, which goes counter to providing a sense of newness.
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I play the same systems I did when I was younger, and have more fun with them because I'm less uptight about things. But...playing with brand new players really does bring back that feel.

Inigo Montoya did.

Quote from: Kiero;825154There's an intrinsic assumption baked into the premise of this thread that what you did at the start was in some way better. I wouldn't touch any of the shit I did back then with a barge pole, it has pretty much no nostalgia value or resonance with what I want to do today. My games of now are vastly more enjoyable than my games of then.

Amen.

Quote from: Greentongue;824852When I first started playing I had no idea what to expect. I had heard friends talking about their adventures and the stories were like a drug.
I wanted to play too.
The world was my plaything and there was adventure at every turn.

Over the years rules accumulated, expectations solidified and the sparkle faded.

I've tried to recapture the freshness of the original games by trying to introduce little known setting and "loose" rules but one player with
"the baggage of expectations" brings the current jadedness back.

Can it be done? Can the freshness be recreated?
=

I dunno, I never left the beginning. The sparkle has never faded for me.

Maybe its just time to get rid of that one player.

Quote from: Greentongue;825174I my case it is more the "going where no man has gone before" feeling.
Looking back the "game play" may not have been "better" but the feeling of "exploring the unknown" was certainly stronger.

Using new rules may improve the "game play" but that doesn't give me the feeling of "exploring the unknown" I want.

New game settings are more likely but if it isn't "easy to relate to" few people are interested.
The ease is provided by familiarity, which goes counter to providing a sense of newness.
=

Freshness, like novel-ness or uniqueness is vastly overrated. Same goes surprise. I couldn't give much of a toss about the feeling of exploring the unknown, I'd rather be certain I'm going to get something I enjoy because I've done it before.

The sparkle only fades for me when I'm dealing with jerks or game materials I'm forcing myself to deal with because of trying to fit into someone else's idea of fun.

I find that when I avoid those two factors, everything is as fantastic as the summer afternoon in 1983 that I GMed Palace of the Silver Princess for my friends.  Of course, that was about a year and a half past when I first played, and nothing in that true beginning time is anything I'd ever want to go back to.