Bear with me...

In the video game Final Fantasy IX there was a negative condition that some monsters could inflict on you called virus. While you were virused-up, you could not gain any XP at all, but your previous levels were untouched.

My players and I like to strike a balance between the brutality of older D&D and the gentler approach of more modern editions. I'm considering setting up a condition like the one described above as a substitute for the scary old level drain. It still stings, but I figure people naturally resent the loss of future gains less than the loss of what is already acquired.

What do you think? Any unforeseen issues? Would you use this approach?

The most obvious issue I see is that FF9 does XP on a battle by battle basis.  Unless you do the same it might become difficult to adjudicate it.  If you give XP as a lump sum at the end of the adventure, then what portion of it is the character entitled to?

At the very least, an XP block is much less paperwork. It depends on the game, of course, but I'm of the opinion level drain is generally far more trouble than it's worth.

When it was still alive City of Heroes' death penalty was XP debt, which basically taxed half of all XP earned until you'd paid it off. Slows down progression without stopping it altogether and doesn't have the paperwork hassle of level drain. Bloody brilliant, if you ask me. Of course the concept of a death penalty doesn't really apply to tabletop RPGs, on account of death is the penalty, but there's no reason you couldn't make it a condition, as you said.

I always liked the idea of level drain in D&D, but hated the paperwork of it.

How about XP debt, like in the (late, lamented) City of Heroes MMO?

Come to think of it, City of Heroes did something where when you got KOed you'd go into XP debt.  You wouldn't lose a level, but you had to re-earn a decent chunk of your XP before you caught back up.

It was a pain in the ass.  It was definitely something to be avoided.

Maybe each hit from a level drainer blasts away X amount of XP per level drained?

edit: Woodsmoke and Just Another Snake Cult beat me to it.

I wouldn't, but the problem with level drain isn't the level drain, it's the permanence. Make them slow to return and you might be able to have both.

Personally I prefer (temporary, no longer than weeks to return, shorter durations at your preference) Con drains, with knock on effects on hit points, fatigue, saves, etc. It makes more sense from the standpoint of the inspirational fiction.

In 5e at least a loss of a level is quick enough to recover that it is not that lasting a problem.

The big problem with level drain is that it can end up very quickly being loss of more than one level. THAT is when players tend to start to grumble. I use level draining undead very sparingly and try to give the group hints whats coming so they have at least the options to prepare, negotiate, or get the hell out of there.

One thing I did do was add that Greater Restoration also can cure one level drain loss per casting.

Considering also adding that Death Ward can negate one incoming level drain.

Quote from: apparition13;824340Personally I prefer (temporary, no longer than weeks to return, shorter durations at your preference) Con drains, with knock on effects on hit points, fatigue, saves, etc. It makes more sense from the standpoint of the inspirational fiction.

I feel similarly, although I don't have an issue per se with the effect taking months to heal or even being indefinite.

Mostly, I'd like there to be a description of what the effect does without referring to level, experience points, or other mechanics. What is it supposed to do in terms of the game-world?

It seems to me that draining life-force is better represented as draining Constitution - making the person more pale and sickly.

i dont mind this idea i would have it as something separate rather then an alternative to level drain i would fluff it as an effect that makes you unable to learn new things.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;824338I always liked the idea of level drain in D&D, but hated the paperwork of it.

How about XP debt, like in the (late, lamented) City of Heroes MMO?

I think XP debt could work well so long as there wasn't a simple common spell that could be cast to remove the effect.

I  definitely would not use something like this.

First, what does it represent? I understand what level drain represents: losing part of your soul. This just seems like a mechanical penalty for the sake of penalty... Like in a video game.

But second, I have a good way to run level drain right now. Level drops, XP stays the same. Going on one adventure and earning any XP, even just 1 point, restores one lost level. So the character might have to take it easy for a while, but the levels come back quickly. I can't see doing it any other way, except maybe permanent aging, which is really scary.

i would say it works by blocking your ability to learn

Quote from: talysman;824367First, what does it represent? I understand what level drain represents: losing part of your soul.

Good question.

A deformity in the soul that stunts growth? Awful trauma that paralyzes some of your mental/psychological capacities? Lingering cowardice that dims your heroic spark? A lock on the ability to form new memories? Actual brain drain?

How about instead of level drain the touched PC goes into a coma and must experience a soul's-journey-through-the-dreamlands type of experience? You know, the character wanders around in a barren landscape while the dead he has slain taunt him with accusations and tales meant to distract him. The more times a PC is touched the deeper and longer his journey lasts and the more side quests he has to accomplish to return to the land of the living. If he can't complete what he has to he remains forever in purgatory.

Or have the character stricken with a deep ennui. The touch forces him to see the cold horror of death-which-awaits and he becomes despondent and depressed for a while. He is awake but all he can do is mutter about the horror of existence.

Quote from: talysman;824367I  definitely would not use something like this.

First, what does it represent? I understand what level drain represents: losing part of your soul. This just seems like a mechanical penalty for the sake of penalty... Like in a video game.

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THIS.  The undead are feared, and rightly so.  Their horrible powers should be terrifying to players, and make them feel a sense of true loss when they are victimized by them.