Tracking alignment

Brad · March 06, 2015, 08:33:17 PM

Quote from: Rincewind1;819155Some of us treat RPGs as a bit more sophisticated games than Monopoly.

Cue bitching about how I support badwrongfun.

The OP was specifically asking about D&D; that was the context of my post.

Rincewind1 · March 06, 2015, 08:35:21 PM

Quote from: Brad;819156The OP was specifically asking about D&D; that was the context of my post.

Even that poor beast of burden, D&D, can be about more than killing monsters/stealing their loot.

I myself use two conceptions:

1) Flexible alignments, based on points from NWN.
2) Abolish the alignments all - together, and base all alignment - based magic on specific cases, such as Protection vs Undead rather than vs Evil, etc. etc.

Brad · March 06, 2015, 08:38:33 PM

Quote from: Rincewind1;819157Even that poor beast of burden, D&D, can be about more than killing monsters/stealing their loot.

I myself use two conceptions:

1) Flexible alignments, based on points from NWN.
2) Abolish the alignments all - together, and base all alignment - based magic on specific cases, such as Protection vs Undead rather than vs Evil, etc. etc.

As much hate as Palladium gets, I always liked Siembedia's alignment system. In the very least it's unambiguous as to what someone with a particular alignment would do.

mAcular Chaotic · March 06, 2015, 08:42:17 PM

http://www.easydamus.com/alignment.html

How accurate does this site seem for alignment descriptions?

snooggums · March 06, 2015, 10:20:32 PM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;819083How do you handle situations where the player does something and thinks its within alignment but the DM disagrees?

I'm the DM, so as the designated arbitrator I listen to their explanation and then make a decision just like with any other DM call. If they can explain it clearly in 30 seconds and it makes just enough sense I will let it slide unless someone else objects.

Since I'm consistent and the players are of the mindset that I am the final word there isn't any bitching or complaining when I say something doesn't fit their alignment and that it would shift if they act/don't act as needed.

If I ever get to play a character again, I expect the same in return.

Ravenswing · March 07, 2015, 03:06:34 AM

Alignment was the very first OD&D rule I ditched, and it didn't take me long to ditch it: I considered it moronic nearly 40 years ago and haven't changed my mind since.

It's caused more in-game arguments than all other mechanics combined, generally centered around players trying to justify how their actions don't violate their alignments and DMs trying to screw them over for not being in lockstep with their hitherto undisclosed interpretations.

I quite understand that the creators, who thought they were writing a wargame, wanted a mechanic to settle which side was the OPFOR, but that excuse fell apart decades ago. At this stage, I've long since ceased to wonder why the sheep persist in clinging to a mechanic that's caused fifty times as much anger, angst and soured feelings as it's enhanced game play.

Even D&D works perfectly well without it (and it's not as if D&D historically has given mechanical benefits for good RP), and doing so pulls a perpetual and poisonous bone of contention from many campaigns. You change a few spells, and you base your religions around dogma and doctrine, not around a chirpy "Well, the followers of the great god Bunsgrabber are Chaotic Horny!" If there are fewer than fifty websites and blogs advising you how, I'd be astonished. Judge people on their actions and beliefs, not on how closely they adhere to an arbitrary two-letter label upon which few ever agree.

mAcular Chaotic · March 07, 2015, 04:10:06 AM

It's not all bad. It gives you some loose direction when you're still figuring out how to play your character.

By the way. Breaking out of jail: is it ever Lawful?

Omega · March 07, 2015, 05:10:38 AM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;819162http://www.easydamus.com/alignment.html

How accurate does this site seem for alignment descriptions?

About as accurate as anyone elses interpretaions and/or hallucinations as to what Alignment means. There isnt even agreement on what BX's Law/Neutral/Chaos means and that includes the product itself.

One I used was
Law codifies and organizes things.
Neutral magnifies things due to lack of distillation and limitations through other factors.
Chaos frees and disorganizes things.
etc.

In my own book there was no alignment. People might be tagged by others as good or evil through their actions or legends. But it was all perceptual from outside. The character acts as they will good or ill.

snooggums · March 07, 2015, 09:45:34 AM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;819196By the way. Breaking out of jail: is it ever Lawful?

If the incarceration was due to unlawful behavior and there is no chance to work within the system, absolutely.

talysman · March 07, 2015, 10:53:54 AM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;819196It's not all bad. It gives you some loose direction when you're still figuring out how to play your character.

By the way. Breaking out of jail: is it ever Lawful?

Depends. I never ever consider human laws (or other laws) when judging what is in accordance with Law. What matters is how and why someone breaks out.

LordVreeg · March 07, 2015, 01:53:23 PM

Quote from: Rincewind1;819157Even that poor beast of burden, D&D, can be about more than killing monsters/stealing their loot.

I myself use two conceptions:

1) Flexible alignments, based on points from NWN.
2) Abolish the alignments all - together, and base all alignment - based magic on specific cases, such as Protection vs Undead rather than vs Evil, etc. etc.

Nah. D&D is best for killing monster and stealing their loot.
Just kidding.

There are so, so may ways to track alignment and influence. I currently track certain players due to their relationship to certain spheres of influence, since there is a correspondence between their actions and a that type of magic. But as I said, I used to track them on an alignment graph, where over 50 points was that alignment and under 50 was a tendency (within the neutral square) and could literally tell you that a PC started at LC-15/GE70 (Neutral Good with chaotic tendencies), but after tracking over 9 sessions that character was LC20/GE55 (Still Neutral Good but now with lawful tendencies).

rawma · March 07, 2015, 03:11:23 PM

Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory for all PCs. Or the Voigt-Kampff test.

LordVreeg · March 07, 2015, 03:36:29 PM

Quote from: rawma;819245Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory for all PCs. Or the Voigt-Kampff test.

Better with the big 5.

rawma · March 07, 2015, 04:04:25 PM

Quote from: LordVreeg;819246Better with the big 5.

Oh sure, start another alignment heresy, schism, witch hunt and holy war. Last time over a million 1e and 2e paladins dead, and still no idea why we killed them.

LordVreeg · March 07, 2015, 04:40:10 PM

Quote from: rawma;819249Oh sure, start another alignment heresy, schism, witch hunt and holy war. Last time over a million 1e and 2e paladins dead, and still no idea why we killed them.

Simple, GM paradox....
lawful society with immoral laws....

I must follow the law....I cannot follow the law...I must follow the law...I cannot follow the law...