5e Rogue Question: Sneak attack

Omega · February 25, 2015, 10:00:08 PM

This one came up over on BGG, with the same Opportunity Attack guy no less.

Question to put to those here.

When would you read Sneak attack with Two Weapons as being declared? Before you make the attack? Or after?

The question came up that by the rules wording you can make your first attack and if it misses, try for sneak attack with your second. Or if the first attack hits, call that it wasnt a sneak attack and reserve it for the second?

It doesnt quite sound right. But the wording of Sneak Attack just says.

QuoteOnce per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.

If I am reading that right then yes you can wait to declare it till you know the hit is a success or not?

Skywalker · February 25, 2015, 10:03:13 PM

You apply the extra damage once per turn on a successful attack. As such, you can choose to do it on the second weapon attack if it hits, after the first weapon attack misses.

Its important to note that both attacks qualify as sneak attacks, its just that the bonus can only be applied once. So, its not that the first sneak attack missing makes the second one a sneak attack.

Sacrosanct · February 26, 2015, 01:32:27 AM

since the wording is that you don't apply it until you've hit, I read it as you can choose. You're just limited to once per turn.

trechriron · February 26, 2015, 01:46:46 AM

Quote from: Skywalker;817785You apply the extra damage once per turn on a successful attack. As such, you can choose to do it on the second weapon attack if it hits, after the first weapon attack misses. ...

That's how we've been playing it, and my rogues like it! :-)

Remember, you don't have to have advantage if the opponent is engaged with another PC (only exception to advantage)! Also remember if the 2nd attack hits, it does not get STR damage bonus.

My rogues move up, sneak attack an engaged opponent and then use Cunning Action (Disengage) to move out of harm's way. It's very effective! Both use two weapons, so they get lots of chances for sneak attack damage. :-)

Opaopajr · February 26, 2015, 06:02:58 AM

Quote from: Skywalker;817785You apply the extra damage once per turn on a successful attack. As such, you can choose to do it on the second weapon attack if it hits, after the first weapon attack misses.

Its important to note that both attacks qualify as sneak attacks, its just that the bonus can only be applied once. So, its not that the first sneak attack missing makes the second one a sneak attack.

Skywalker is correct. And the same principle is at hand for the Paladin and Divine Smite. It is an after the fact decision.

On each qualifying attack (be they action, an extra attack from an attack action, bonus action, or reaction) you may decide AFTER IT HITS whether to trigger your one Sneak Attack that turn. Since the threshold is very low, you should be doing this every single round, sometimes twice. (Note it does not say "your turn," hence it is usable with a reaction outside your turn.)

Emperor Norton · February 26, 2015, 01:22:18 PM

Quote from: trechriron;817821My rogues move up, sneak attack an engaged opponent and then use Cunning Action (Disengage) to move out of harm's way. It's very effective! Both use two weapons, so they get lots of chances for sneak attack damage. :-)

Cunning Action and attacking with a second weapon are both bonus actions. They could do one, or the other, not both.

Opaopajr · February 26, 2015, 01:49:17 PM

Quote from: Emperor Norton;817912Cunning Action and attacking with a second weapon are both bonus actions. They could do one, or the other, not both.

Absolutely correct. However twice the attempts to land the Sneak Attack is worth it. And with Opportunity Attacks "greatly increased" while in melee, you get more bang for the buck so engaged.

After awhile Sneak Attack seems like it must land to keep pace with party damage. So things either hyper-focus on to long-range accuracy & kiting or multiple attack attempts w/ OAs. Sneak Attack gets very old, very fast.

estar · February 27, 2015, 10:55:38 AM

Quote from: Sacrosanct;817819since the wording is that you don't apply it until you've hit, I read it as you can choose. You're just limited to once per turn.

I concur, sneak attack damage is an option that can be apply at the damage step, not at the set of declaring of an attack.

Emperor Norton · February 27, 2015, 02:54:28 PM

Quote from: Opaopajr;817916Absolutely correct. However twice the attempts to land the Sneak Attack is worth it. And with Opportunity Attacks "greatly increased" while in melee, you get more bang for the buck so engaged.

Absolutely. The double attempt at sneak attack is one of the strongest cases for using dual wielding in the game.

And if you hit on the first attack, you can always use your cunning action to withdraw instead of attacking with your offhand if you need to. I mean, the damage on that off hand isn't impressive without sneak attack anyway.