So, I'm starting an L5R game, but I'm torn between Pendragon-style estate and family management or wandering badasses killing demons and cultists and stopping the machinations of evil monks and corrupt daimyo.  

My plan is to set the game just before the period of the Scorpion Clan Coup and Clan Wars, and basically ignore the metaplot, going where the game takes me.  (I'm thinking of this as "Ultimate Rokugan," where I basically steal all the good parts and discard all of the goofy metaplot bullshit.)

Anybody have any advice for combining the kind of Pendragon-style play with badasses slaying demons and evil eunuchs?  Any kind of hooks or references I can use?  In my head, I need to get over this kind of "austere samurai intrigue" being in conflict with asskicking block I seem to have.

I know nothing of L5R but could you do a troupe style setup, like Ars Magica, where you have the PC noble clan leaders and their intrigues but also PC lower level young'uns being sent out on missions and having 'asskicking' adventures along the road? Switch focus between adventures?

Quote from: Future Villain Band;809546So, I'm starting an L5R game, but I'm torn between Pendragon-style estate and family management or wandering badasses killing demons and cultists and stopping the machinations of evil monks and corrupt daimyo.  

Why not do both? Start with the wandering band of low samurai, let them save that village from bandits, discover those blood mages in the big town, and thus earn the respect and trust from their daimyo and/or clan champion, who grants them a fiefdom or a related task. Add a timeline to it (I can offer you mine, which treats everything after the 2nd day of Thunder as didn't happen and diverge from there towards a more RPG than CCG oriented setting), so that you have some sort of events happening in the backgrounds which interconnect with the actions of the PCs.  

Quote from: Future Villain Band;809546My plan is to set the game just before the period of the Scorpion Clan Coup and Clan Wars, and basically ignore the metaplot, going where the game takes me.  (I'm thinking of this as "Ultimate Rokugan," where I basically steal all the good parts and discard all of the goofy metaplot bullshit.)

Emancipation from the metaplot is almost mandatory for a fulfilling L5R game. That setting basically exists only for providing story rewards for the card game player base, but the very things that provides this appeal to the card players also have a significant  negative impact on the setting from a roleplaying perspective. I did basically the same, even though the point of diversion, as mentioned above, was the second day of thunder (mostly because I wanted the Mantis as a Great Clan).  The resulting game has been running (more off than on lately) for the last three and a half years and has covered 9 intime years, and almost two complete sets of characters.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;809546Anybody have any advice for combining the kind of Pendragon-style play with badasses slaying demons and evil eunuchs?  Any kind of hooks or references I can use?  In my head, I need to get over this kind of "austere samurai intrigue" being in conflict with asskicking block I seem to have.

The obvious one, of course would playing Crabs with a fief; you spent half the time fighting against nasty things from the Shadowlands, the other half of the time, you get insulted by Cranes and have to deal with politics and trade.
The only other thing I can offer you is a random lifepath character generation system for L5R characters, but I fear it is a bit overpowered for most campaigns, but if you want to have great badass characters (as I did when I wrote the damn thing), it works pretty well.

Quote from: Beagle;809596Why not do both? Start with the wandering band of low samurai, let them save that village from bandits, discover those blood mages in the big town, and thus earn the respect and trust from their daimyo and/or clan champion, who grants them a fiefdom or a related task. Add a timeline to it (I can offer you mine, which treats everything after the 2nd day of Thunder as didn't happen and diverge from there towards a more RPG than CCG oriented setting), so that you have some sort of events happening in the backgrounds which interconnect with the actions of the PCs.  

I would love to see a timeline like that -- I may not use it religiously, but I'm positive it would be a good model for me.

QuoteEmancipation from the metaplot is almost mandatory for a fulfilling L5R game. That setting basically exists only for providing story rewards for the card game player base, but the very things that provides this appeal to the card players also have a significant  negative impact on the setting from a roleplaying perspective. I did basically the same, even though the point of diversion, as mentioned above, was the second day of thunder (mostly because I wanted the Mantis as a Great Clan).  The resulting game has been running (more off than on lately) for the last three and a half years and has covered 9 intime years, and almost two complete sets of characters.

See, that's what I want out of my L5R game.  That's pretty inspiring that you've made it work that long.

QuoteThe obvious one, of course would playing Crabs with a fief; you spent half the time fighting against nasty things from the Shadowlands, the other half of the time, you get insulted by Cranes and have to deal with politics and trade.
The only other thing I can offer you is a random lifepath character generation system for L5R characters, but I fear it is a bit overpowered for most campaigns, but if you want to have great badass characters (as I did when I wrote the damn thing), it works pretty well.

I hadn't thought about playing Crabs -- that's a terrific idea.  And yes, I'd love to see a lifepath set-up.  I've been lamenting the lack of one for a while in L5R...

Thanks, seriously.  Those are good ideas.

Quote from: Simlasa;809584I know nothing of L5R but could you do a troupe style setup, like Ars Magica, where you have the PC noble clan leaders and their intrigues but also PC lower level young'uns being sent out on missions and having 'asskicking' adventures along the road? Switch focus between adventures?

It's weird, my group doesn't really go in for troupe-style play.  It's one reason why I haven't made Ars Magica work really well with this specific group.

In L5R 4th edition, the Emerald Empire sourcebook has the Daimyo system, which is all about being a L5R take on governance (and I believe it's where the Court Battle system lives, too - but that's more going off of memory rather than having the book here with me).

Quote from: Beagle;809596I did basically the same, even though the point of diversion, as mentioned above, was the second day of thunder (mostly because I wanted the Mantis as a Great Clan).

Yeah, I find Great Clan Mantis very useful to have around from a thematic and plot-hook standpoint. Trouble always was that in many of the interesting eras of the game where the Mantis are strong the Scorpion are weak, and I like the pre-coup Scorpion better. 4th edition tries hard to blur away the eras and accumulated meta-plot, but I feel mixing post-coup Mantis and pre-coup Scorpion is still a bridge too far.

Quote from: Future Villain BandAnybody have any advice for combining the kind of Pendragon-style play with badasses slaying demons and evil eunuchs?

I might suggest drawing some inspiration from the old card game Shadowfist and its associated RPG Feng Shui. They were surprisingly compatible, at least to me, as it helped break up some of the thematic 'stuffiness' L5R can be prone to. I used to shuffle Shadowfist cards, draw a few and use them to randomize suitably kick ass L5R events (with some creative adaptation of course). The evil eunuch angle is already covered for you there as a bonus!

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;809626Yeah, I find Great Clan Mantis very useful to have around from a thematic and plot-hook standpoint. Trouble always was that in many of the interesting eras of the game where the Mantis are strong the Scorpion are weak, and I like the pre-coup Scorpion better. 4th edition tries hard to blur away the eras and accumulated meta-plot, but I feel mixing post-coup Mantis and pre-coup Scorpion is still a bridge too far.

That's why I propagate to mostly ignore the canon and create one of your own. The official canon fixates too much on entirely empty symbolic victories and is sometimes really, really stupid.
In my Rokugan, the Scorpion is certainly not at the peak of its power, but so is pretty much every other Clan (except the Mantis and the Unicorn) due to the odd idea that a country devastated by a massive war like the Clan War and especially the toxic emanations of the massive shadowlands army might have consequences that don't disappear over night. As a result, the Scorpion are weak on a military level, but reasonably strong in court and use their apparent military weakness as a political tool. Being considered as unthreatening is not the worst impression to create. It is also very Scorpion-esque (and not as stupid as the canon tale of the Scorpion clan champion who sacrificed a whole army in a futile attempt to attack the Lion to create exactly that impression of being harmless).

My suggestion is use Minor Clans for the PCs. It makes them underdogs and pawns, but the little brothers out to prove themselves. Lots of reason to be present in Court, but also sent out on suicide missions to gain favors and prestige.

I like L5R canon...as a box of bits to pick and choose from. Just make sure your players are cool with that.

Personally, the best use of canon I have found is locations from the past which echo into the present or foreshadow into the future.

Quote from: Beagle;809637(and not as stupid as the canon tale of the Scorpion clan champion who sacrificed a whole army in a futile attempt to attack the Lion to create exactly that impression of being harmless).

Although that is no doubt stupid on a strategic level, from the perspective of the doomed army it is fittingly 'samurai' in that special, exaggerated, historically inaccurate way that L5R revels in.

Just imagine being the general who receives that mass suicide order, fully realizing it's basically a PR ploy... and carrying it out anyway. It's the stuff the game's dramatic side is made of.

Heh, here's a tip for the Pendragon side of the OP's question: It isn't really a successful L5R campaign until someone does something grandly idiotic because they place ritualized clan honor above such petty concerns as self-preservation, long term planning or basic human kindness.

I'm only being half sarcastic.

Ahh, this is right up my alley. Especially the Scorpion Clan Coup and Clan Wars.

(BTW, The story is Scorpion Clan Champion sacrificing a noble in a whisper campaign against the returning Unicorn. Basically the Unicorn were such an unknown quantity it threw Scorpion psy-ops out of whack, they had a much better cavalry and were on the Scorpion border. In order to seem harmless and buy more time to study the Unicorn they played up their anti-outsider bigotry and then folded like a cheap suit on the battlefield. Thoroughly convinced the Scorpion were all talk the Unicorn took the victory and dismissed the Scorpion as a real political threat to their return to Rokugan. Perrrrfect.)

If you want to play daimyo politics, but still have a reason to travel around fighting the forces of corruption and darkness, you want to play Crab family Kuni.

They are the shugenja of the Crab and researchers par excellence of the Shadowlands. They also lost immense lands to the Shadowlands, with some reclaimed. These reclaimed lands are blighted and often face Shadowland incursions (well almost all Crab family lands do).

The Kuni also have Shugenja inquisitors, who have cause to travel about to study cases of corruption within the Empire. These Shugenja, just like Courtiers, often have cause to travel with Samurai Yojimbo. Also the Crab are lax on Rokugani politics and etiquette, so it is much easier to introduce new players and show the contrast between Crab and other Clan manners.

Another clan could be Phoenix, but they are super orthodox, highly Shugenja and Yojimbo focused, and excruciatingly pacifist and mannerly during that time period.

Throw me your current clan considerations and I can possibly work something out.

Quote from: Opaopajr;809840Also the Crab are lax on Rokugani politics and etiquette, so it is much easier to introduce new players and show the contrast between Crab and other Clan manners.

I always liked dragon clan for new players. They hit many of the right stereotypical buttons (martial arts, magic tattoos, smart yet honorable samurai, mountain majesty, investigators, smart Alecs, etc.) while having an "ahead of their time" vibe that eases people unfamiliar with the hyper-bushido society into the action.

If you wanted to cover the bases, what kinds of character types would you use?  I figure a bushi school PC, a shugenja school PC, and then...monk?  Courtier?  I'm pre-genning the characters tonight, and stuck on what to make the third character.

Quote from: Future Villain Band;809901If you wanted to cover the bases, what kinds of character types would you use?  I figure a bushi school PC, a shugenja school PC, and then...monk?  Courtier?  I'm pre-genning the characters tonight, and stuck on what to make the third character.

If it's only 3, I would say go with a courtier. And, more than that, I'd say look at the various courtier schools and think about what you're wanting this third pre-gen courtier to do, besides "be talky". The most traditional (as we think of it) courtier school is the Doji's, as it's based around favors. The Bayushi is sort of its dark mirror, as it's based around blackmail (if looked at uncharitably). The Yasuki and Yoritomo schools are courtier by way of different flavors of bullying, and the Ide is courtier by way of being chummy. The Kitsuki and Agasha are more out there, being more about investigation and lore than necessarily straight up getting what you want in a court setting.

For a pre-gen character, especially for a person who might not be steeped in the lore of L5R, I would probably go with the Ide courtier. Being a unicorn means the player can get away with having an outsider's viewpoint, but being an Ide means that, speaking stereotypically, people will like the courtier. This, of course, makes the job of being a courtier easier.

EDIT: Already covered.