Fantasy world inconsistencies

Arohtar · January 13, 2015, 05:33:35 PM

Quote from: Bren;808762As a GM, I think that random homicidal invisible flying MUs call for poisoned food and wine to sell to them. The bearded bastards have to eat and drink something after all and they are too busy learning spells, killing people, and resting up for a new day of slaughter to grow their own food. And they aren't clerics so they can't detect the poison or detoxify it and they are probably loaded with loot from their killing spree. Knock one or two of those old assholes off and you can retire to a nice place up in the mountains away from the major wizardly flight paths. As a GM I figure 3% - 15% chance anything the wizard eats or drinks is poison. How good is a 20th level wizard's saving throw vs. poison?

Yes, I think you are right. Magic users miss the cleric spells that make you self sufficient, so they are dependent on allies. They should not kill peasants. Only people who challenged their power.

saskganesh · January 13, 2015, 07:17:26 PM

Quote from: Doom;809056I really think it's understood that most significant defensive structures in D&D-land will have appropriate defenses built in to them. Yes, players don't see these defenses as spells in the PHB, but invisibilty-nullificaiton-3000-yard radius has a casting time of 6 months, and material components of a 6 ton slab of granite, among other things that just didn't seem worth putting in the PBH.

I like the idea of static, defensive, magicks ... in the hands of mason-mages of course.

Now if there's 20th level mages about, there's also Wish spells. A real shortcut. If a kingdom can get their hands on one of those say every century, over time they'll could have amassed some impressive, unique and secret defenses. Including some incredible curses.

You gotta think out of the white (room) box.

Bren · January 13, 2015, 07:29:20 PM

Quote from: jhkim;809051Phrased another way, you're saying "There ought to be a method of using counter-magic to prevent magical shenanigans." However, for most RPGs there is not.

Not sure about most RPGS. It doesn't seem like a D&D thing until spells like Anti-Magic show up. But it is quite common in Runequest and BRP. One of the many reasons I switched to Runequest (where countermagic is a common spell) at the beginning of the 1980s was the way the available magic and the setting fit together in a logical fashion that avoided some of the more egregious oddities.

Bren · January 13, 2015, 07:32:11 PM

Quote from: Arohtar;809062They should not kill peasants.

Probably not, but logically for the reasons I mentioned the peasants in your world should kill any magic user they can poison - which is eventually pretty much all of them - long before the homicidal MU ever reaches 20th level. Those bastards have to sleep and eat sometime and since they are loaded with ill gotten gains the reward is well worth the one-time risk.

Will · January 13, 2015, 07:42:52 PM

You know, that would make an interesting campaign premise.

A game world where magic is forbidden and large groups, particularly clergy, will hunt them down and kill them before their power becomes unmanageable.

Bren · January 13, 2015, 07:51:18 PM

Quote from: Will;809081You know, that would make an interesting campaign premise.

A game world where magic is forbidden and large groups, particularly clergy, will hunt them down and kill them before their power becomes unmanageable.

Wow what a great idea. You should write that up. Maybe give it an evocative title that plays to that premise. A few years ago, I was allowed to see (and handle) an original copy of the Malleus Maleficarum - the so called Hammer of the Witches. Your premise me of that. In fact Witchhammer might be a good title for the game.

Rincewind1 · January 13, 2015, 07:52:32 PM

Quote from: Will;809081You know, that would make an interesting campaign premise.

A game world where magic is forbidden and large groups, particularly clergy, will hunt them down and kill them before their power becomes unmanageable.

It's...already there. In many RPGs that are not D&D settings, magic is either forbidden, controlled, or mistrusted.

Quote from: Bren;809084Wow what a great idea. You should write that up. Maybe give it an evocative title that plays to that premise. A few years ago, I was allowed to see (and handle) an original copy of the Malleus Maleficarum - the so called Hammer of the Witches. Your premise me of that. In fact Witchhammer might be a good title for the game.

The hammer part is good, but I think it should also refer to other things than just witches. In such a setting players will mostly play warriors...so perhaps something to do with war. Warhammer, maybe?

Bren · January 13, 2015, 08:00:13 PM

Quote from: Rincewind1;809085The hammer part is good, but I think it should also refer to other things than just witches. In such a setting players will mostly play warriors...so perhaps something to do with war. Warhammer, maybe?

Well Warhammer makes me think of a bunch of big, beefy ox-like characters clomping about in oversize boots and helmets with sledge hammers instead of actual warhammers. I was thinking of something a bit more elegant. Maybe he should go with Hexenhammer - that covers the magic aspect without being exclusively about witches.

Emperor Norton · January 13, 2015, 08:02:58 PM

Quote from: Will;809081You know, that would make an interesting campaign premise.

A game world where magic is forbidden and large groups, particularly clergy, will hunt them down and kill them before their power becomes unmanageable.

Dragon Age

Will · January 13, 2015, 08:35:43 PM

It's been done a bunch of times in fiction. Barbara Hambly has a bunch of books along that vein (including spellcord, which nullifies a mage's power when in contact, such as binding the hands, and the sign of the void, which absorbs all magic nearby).

Really cool stuff, and often a mixed bag -- there are good mages, but also really really awful ones that inspire oppression, and some mages who hate being hunted but wonder if it might not be for the best.

I'd write it up, but right now I'm absorbed in making a web comic.

Spike · January 13, 2015, 09:25:00 PM

Quote from: Premier;808873"Plenty" is a rather subjective term, so maybe it wasn't the best choice of words on his part. But that aside, you do know and acknowledge that bears still exist in Europe, roughly 55,000 of them; and that contrarily to your earlier absolute claim were NOT completely wiped out by the Romans, right? RIGHT?

I did acknowledge that my original assertion was wrong, yes. I admit I didn't simply prostrate myself on the altar of humiliation in shame, so that might not have been clear.

I will note that most/many (pick the word you like more) of those 55k you mention live in areas that I, subconsciously I suppose, don't really consider part of Europe 'per se'*. Given that I am a fan of the Polish Army Bear, I really should have known better than to include them for rhetorical flourish.

Is that better? Or do I need to be more abject and ashamed?

* You know, like Russia and the former Warsaw Pact areas, and near the arctic circle where those damn viking dudes used to live.

jibbajibba · January 13, 2015, 10:26:39 PM

Funniest thing in the thread is the accusation against the OP for white room solutions when the whole thread is the opposite and trying to follow the logical implications of RAW onto the game setting.

Bren · January 13, 2015, 10:49:56 PM

Quote from: jibbajibba;809104Funniest thing in the thread is the accusation against the OP for white room solutions when the whole thread is the opposite and trying to follow the logical implications of RAW onto the game setting.

One person's odd little view on what motivates spectres and wizards is not a logical implication of the RAW. It is one person's odd little view of what motivates spectres and wizards. The funniest thing in the thread is that the OP just doesn't understand his choices are causing his problems.

Will · January 13, 2015, 10:57:19 PM

Quote from: Bren;809107One person's odd little view on what motivates spectres and wizards is not a logical implication of the RAW. It is one person's odd little view of what motivates spectres and wizards. The funniest thing in the thread is that the OP just doesn't understand his choices are causing his problems.

Um, are you saying that 'undead want to make more undead' and 'humans with vast magical power would abuse that power' are weird/fringe ideas on how spectres and wizards would act?

Bren · January 13, 2015, 11:02:52 PM

Quote from: Will;809109Um, are you saying that 'undead want to make more undead' and 'humans with vast magical power would abuse that power' are weird/fringe ideas on how spectres and wizards would act?

I'm saying that the scenario the OP presented is a weird fringe idea.

So are you saying pandemic spectre flu and lots of 20th level wizards with nothing better to do than fly around invisible napalming kings for kicks are a logical interpretation of the rules? Really?