5e lists a musket as range 40/120. About the same as a 5e sling.
Some sources list actual musket ranges of 150 yards or so for older styles, which I am guessing they are basing off of rather than the more modern and longer ranged ones.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;808542Speaking of ranges, are there any house rules you guys have to handle up close combat?

Someone using a long bow in melee range seems wrong to me. How does 5E handle that? I bet there are rules for fighting against melee attackers up close with a ranged weapon but I can't find them.

I think you need to take the Legolas feat to use a long bow in melee. Also allows for surfing on shields as well as boosting Dex by a point.  Honestly, every elven archer should be taking it. ;p

Quote from: Warboss Squee;808588I think you need to take the Legolas feat to use a long bow in melee. Also allows for surfing on shields as well as boosting Dex by a point.  Honestly, every elven archer should be taking it. ;p

Long before movie Legolas there was another elf...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Veszrg1TErk

Quote from: Omega;8085775e lists a musket as range 40/120. About the same as a 5e sling.
Some sources list actual musket ranges of 150 yards or so for older styles, which I am guessing they are basing off of rather than the more modern and longer ranged ones.

Most of the contemporary sources said smoothbore muskets were ridiculous inaccurate, which is why volley fire emerged. I remember one saying that at any range beyond 50 yards, you might as well "shoot at the moon".

Seen that too. The ball gains a bit of spin coming out and curveballs.

Heres an interesting vid on speed of loading, 6 shots in 2 min, and accuracy. Though I believe they are using more modern rifles than what 5e seems to be patterning on?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Pvc86ggLUY4#t=284

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;808542Speaking of ranges, are there any house rules you guys have to handle up close combat?

Someone using a long bow in melee range seems wrong to me. How does 5E handle that? I bet there are rules for fighting against melee attackers up close with a ranged weapon but I can't find them.

Quote from: Omega;808550Close fighting with a ranged weapon, spell, or powers imposes disadvantage.

Correct, specifically 5' from you, needs to be hostile, see you, and not incapacitated.

Ranged Attacks in Close Combat
Aiming a ranged attack is more difficult when a foe is next to you. When you make a ranged attack with a weapon, a spell, or some other means, you have disadvantage on the attack roll if you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature who can see you and who isn't incapacitated.
(D&D 5e Basic .pdf, August 2014. p. 73.)

Another range question: melee attacks are supposed to grant you the option of just knocking the enemy unconscious instead of killing them. Does that apply to melee attacks that are spells? Like Shocking Grasp?

Id say up to the DM. Certainly in books and movies at least electrical and cold powers have been used to KO people instead of kill.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;808707Another range question: melee attacks are supposed to grant you the option of just knocking the enemy unconscious instead of killing them. Does that apply to melee attacks that are spells? Like Shocking Grasp?

Shocking Grasp used like a taser. Why not?

Quote from: Bren;808716Shocking Grasp used like a taser. Why not?

Well, the specific situation was that the player was interrogating a Redbrand they'd taken captive. He decided to use Shocking Grasp, and I wasn't sure if that wouldn't just outright kill the guy or KO him or what.

And then if he /did/ get KO'd, how long would he be out for. Or would they be able to just slap him awake, and Shocking Grasp him over and over with no penalty because he keeps getting knocked unconscious.

It didn't seem realistic to me.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;808737And then if he /did/ get KO'd, how long would he be out for. Or would they be able to just slap him awake, and Shocking Grasp him over and over with no penalty because he keeps getting knocked unconscious.

It didn't seem realistic to me.

If knocking people unconcious is used repetitively I start thinking about the slight but possibly cumulative possibility of stroke, brain damage, and heart failure.

It's something I've mentioned to players when we played Star Trek to caution people against routinely beaming, stunning, and sorting virtually everyone they meet.

One option is to give partial damage along with the knockout.

I wouldnt allow the sorcerer to try it as they can barely contain their magic as is let alone try to use it for finesse like stunning.

In this case, it was technically a Wizard.

Quote from: Bren;808739If knocking people unconcious is used repetitively I start thinking about the slight but possibly cumulative possibility of stroke, brain damage, and heart failure.

It's something I've mentioned to players when we played Star Trek to caution people against routinely beaming, stunning, and sorting virtually everyone they meet.

One option is to give partial damage along with the knockout.

How many times though before they die? Once? Twice? They're already supposed to be at like 0 HP when they get knocked out, so how would partial damage work.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;808752How many times though before they die? Once? Twice? They're already supposed to be at like 0 HP when they get knocked out, so how would partial damage work.

In the first instance (possibility of serious complications) I don't actually use a mechanic. It is part of a conversation I have with the players about what's OK and what is not when we play. Players who want to use powers and rules that way make me a bit tired and cranky. To avoid me being a tired and cranky GM - because trust me nobody wants that - we have a talk about play expectations.

• If the player is dramatically motivated, we talk about why allowing easy, consequence-free, and repeated knockouts is not dramatically interesting. Dramatically there should be some chance for prisoners (PCs or NPCs) to escape or to face real risk or make real choices else play is not dramatic.

• If the player is realism motivated, we talk about the fact that in the real world those are the sort of risks one would reasonably expect and there is a liimit to how much we can stretch the point for knocking people unconcious safely before combat and damage become silly and characters seem like they have heads made of solid rubbber.

• If the player is gamist/challenge motivated, we talk about why allowing easy, consequence-free, and repeated knockouts can be a cheap I win button that makes the game unchallenging.

How partial damage works would depend on the system. AD&D used subdual damage.

I've used a difference between stun/fatigue and killing damage. All damage counts against Hit Points, but stun/fatigue damage recovers much faster. Think of stun damage as being like the damage seen in a stereotypical TV action series bar fight. People get knocked out (HP = 0) but they wake up after a while (or when someone dumps a bucket of water on their head) and seem mostly fine, i.e. they recover all the stun damage. Using a system like that, I might treat any stun damage past 0 as doing killing damage.

   Example: Fighter with 24 Hit Points. Gets in a bar fight. Takes the following damage in order.   4 pts stun, 6 pts stun (hit with bar stool), 2 pts stun, 5 pts killing (broken bottle), 4 pts stun, and finally 5 pts stun. The final punch exceeds his Hit Point 24-26 = -2 so he took an additional 2 points of killing damage for a total of 7 points of killing damage. After his enforced nap he wakes up and recovers some amount of stun.

• For lots of bar fight high jinx let him recover all the stun damage so he is then at 24 - 7 = 17 hit points.

• For less wacky bar fighting, let him recover half the stun damage on waking and 1 point per hour thereafter.

In some of the later versions of D&D the various heal powers and surges complicate what I would do.

EDIT: Another option for figuring out when they die is to allow a small chance of death, say 1%. Roll D100 on a 00 the stunned character has a complicating medical condition like a brain anurysm.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;808752How many times though before they die? Once? Twice? They're already supposed to be at like 0 HP when they get knocked out, so how would partial damage work.

In the first instance (possibility of serious complications) I don't actually use a mechanic. It is part of a conversation I have with the players about what's OK and what is not when we play. Players who want to use powers and rules that way make me a bit tired and cranky. To avoid me being a tired and cranky GM - because trust me nobody wants that - we have a talk about play expectations.

• If the player is dramatically motivated, we talk about why allowing easy, consequence-free, and repeated knockouts is not dramatically interesting. Dramatically there should be some chance for prisoners (PCs or NPCs) to escape or to face real risk or make real choices else play is not dramatic.

• If the player is realism motivated, we talk about the fact that in the real world those are the sort of risks one would reasonably expect and there is a liimit to how much we can stretch the point for knocking people unconcious safely before combat and damage become silly and characters seem like they have heads made of solid rubbber.

• If the player is gamist/challenge motivated, we talk about why allowing easy, consequence-free, and repeated knockouts can be a cheap I win button that makes the game unchallenging.

How partial damage works would depend on the system. AD&D used subdual damage.

I've used a difference between stun/fatigue and killing damage. All damage counts against Hit Points, but stun/fatigue damage recovers much faster. Think of stun damage as being like the damage seen in a stereotypical TV action series bar fight. People get knocked out (HP = 0) but they wake up after a while (or when someone dumps a bucket of water on their head) and seem mostly fine, i.e. they recover all the stun damage. Using a system like that, I might treat any stun damage past 0 as doing killing damage.

   Example: Fighter with 24 Hit Points. Gets in a bar fight. Takes the following damage in order.   4 pts stun, 6 pts stun (hit with bar stool), 2 pts stun, 5 pts killing (broken bottle), 4 pts stun, and finally 5 pts stun. The final punch exceeds his Hit Point 24-26 = -2 so he took an additional 2 points of killing damage for a total of 7 points of killing damage. After his enforced nap he wakes up and recovers some amount of stun.

• For lots of bar fight high jinx let him recover all the stun damage so he is then at 24 - 7 = 17 hit points.

• For less wacky bar fighting, let him recover half the stun damage on waking and 1 point per hour thereafter.

In some of the later versions of D&D the various heal powers and surges complicate what I would do.

EDIT: Another option for figuring out when they die is to allow a small chance of death, say 1%. Roll D100 on a 00 the stunned character has a complicating medical condition like a brain anurysm.