What's the best rpg for investigation? One of the many incarnations of Cthulhu? Or some other gumshoe game?

Investigation and mystery seem like something that is easily divorced from mechanics. Just go out and talk to people and look around to gather clues. No special investigation rules need apply, IMO.

I've heard a lot of god things about the Gumshoe engine and Night's Black Agents.

In my experience, investigative RPGs depend much, much more on the conclusions and wits of the players and have little to do with the mechanics of the game. If anything, an ubostrusive and intuitive system that can disappear into the background and doesn't interrupt the flow of the game is probably the best (as usual, but more so). BRP/Call of Cthulhu does that pretty well.
The gumshoe system on the other hand is mostly bookkeeping. I really like the take on settings and the adventure modules like the Armitage Files and Eternal Lies are as good as anything ever published for CoC, but the system is more interruptive than I like and keeping track of all the skill pools is more annoying than contributive to the game.

DC Heroes and its RAPS results for using Detective skill.

Gumshoe, every single damn time, because it assumes that my characters are professionals who know what they are doing, rather than bumbling idiots beholden to the will of the percentile dice.

There are lots of bits in Gumshoe where the dice can let you down, and that's fine, but actually investigating isn't one of them.

Quote from: Beagle;807447The gumshoe system on the other hand is mostly bookkeeping. I really like the take on settings and the adventure modules like the Armitage Files and Eternal Lies are as good as anything ever published for CoC, but the system is more interruptive than I like and keeping track of all the skill pools is more annoying than contributive to the game.

See, I find the complete opposite. I remember what types of investigative skills my character has, and when it comes to using them in play, "look at sheet and see if I have points in that pool to spend, then spend if necessary" is less faff than "look at sheet for mechanic number, roll dice, apply game mechanic". Gumshoe has a shorter break in the player / GM conversation.

Although that said, I think we've played investigative scenarios in every system we play. I love my Laundry Files and SLA investigators in particular, but that's because of their characters (Even the one who is actually a bumbling idiot).

Quote from: Beagle;807447In my experience, investigative RPGs depend much, much more on the conclusions and wits of the players and have little to do with the mechanics of the game. If anything, an ubostrusive and intuitive system that can disappear into the background and doesn't interrupt the flow of the game is probably the best (as usual, but more so). BRP/Call of Cthulhu does that pretty well.
The gumshoe system on the other hand is mostly bookkeeping. I really like the take on settings and the adventure modules like the Armitage Files and Eternal Lies are as good as anything ever published for CoC, but the system is more interruptive than I like and keeping track of all the skill pools is more annoying than contributive to the game.

But a lot of games have a lot of focus on the mechanics and that can actually impede investigation
So D&D has lots of rules about combat. Most of the special skills and powers people get to pick relate to combat. Even levels and HPs are a primarily combat focused mechanic. You can run investigations in D&D, I have done loads, but the rules actively hinder you because the players want to use the new powers they have picked up and that means they look for opportunities.

So whilst you don't need specific investigative rules some systems are actively hostile. The key is a good GM any player can be directed down an investigative scenario just through how the GM presents the game world.

I've never had trouble running investigative stuff in BRP Call of Cthulhu but I like the directions on investigation and research in Precis Intermedia's Mean Streets RPG.

Quote from: 3rik;807491I've never had trouble running investigative stuff in BRP Call of Cthulhu but I like the directions on investigation and research in Precis Intermedia's Mean Streets RPG.

What are the directions and what do you like about them?

I've seen plenty of investigations run in D&D as well... I've never thought the rules worked against it, though they do make for a very different sort of mystery given the presence of spells like 'detect magic', 'sense motive'... anything that lets you speak with the dead.
If anything is inhibiting investigations it's Player expectations and attitudes... thinking they can fight their way through any problem. If that's how they want to play then there's no point in throwing drawing room puzzles at them.

Something like Gumshoe fails for me by creating a metagame economy that I do not want in the interest of 'fixing' rules issues that never existed.
ToC is a good sourcebook for CoC though.

Quote from: Bren;807493What are the directions and what do you like about them?

Common-sense and concise practical advice on handling different categories of clues: overt clues, hidden clues, cryptic clues, forensic clues, serendipitous clues and random clues.

The same section can be found in Ghostories, by the way.

I like that it's all very practical and can be easily applied to your game without requiring all kinds of hip nifty meta level mechanics.

Gumshoe is definitely worth looking into if you're interested in investigative games but I would also highly recommend checking out Mean Streets and Ghostories too. They both use the GenreDiversion i system and are pretty light but robust. They are also a bit more traditional than Gumshoe and, as 3rik points out, have some good advice in them.

Whichever games you pick up it is also worth getting GURPS Mysteries. There's some great advice in that book.

Justice, Inc.

Quote from: 3rik;807503Common-sense and concise practical advice on handling different categories of clues: overt clues, hidden clues, cryptic clues, forensic clues, serendipitous clues and random clues.

The same section can be found in Ghostories, by the way.

I like that it's all very practical and can be easily applied to your game without requiring all kinds of hip nifty meta level mechanics.

It sounds like it might be interesting. Any more information you can provide, maybe an example or two?

Has anyone converted or used the advice and categories with other systems?

Quote from: Bren;807509It sounds like it might be interesting. Any more information you can provide, maybe an example or two?

Has anyone converted or used the advice and categories with other systems?

Haha, it's all so concise that quoting any of it may already be giving away too much. The whole thing takes up about one page. You'd have to ask Brett.