Quote from: jibbajibba;799330I have seen examples of say a barbarian dealling 2d6+8 +2d6 on each strike with 3 strikes at 11th level

That is my game.  The damage is so high because of a magical sword he acquired in HotDQ adventure.  The barbarian will never have 3 attacks; he caps at two attacks.  Of course, the barbarian does not choose any fighting styles as is the subject of this thread.

Going by the Starter Set and HotDQ, it looks like additional d6es of damage will be very common in the magical items.  What magic item a PC has looks like it will be incredibly important on figuring PC damage.  You may want to wait until the DMG is available before going hog wild on the houserules.

Only the Fighter gets more then 2 attacks (3 at 11th level and 4 at 20th level). Barbarians, Monks, Rangers, Paladins and Blade Locks get 2 attacks at 5th level and Valor Bards get 2 attacks at 6th level.

Quote from: Marleycat;799564Only the Fighter gets more then 2 attacks (3 at 11th level and 4 at 20th level). Barbarians, Monks, Rangers, Paladins and Blade Locks get 2 attacks at 5th level and Valor Bards get 2 attacks at 6th level.

Well them and anyone that picks up Eldrich blast as a cantrip

Quote from: Old One Eye;799556That is my game.  The damage is so high because of a magical sword he acquired in HotDQ adventure.  The barbarian will never have 3 attacks; he caps at two attacks.  Of course, the barbarian does not choose any fighting styles as is the subject of this thread.

Going by the Starter Set and HotDQ, it looks like additional d6es of damage will be very common in the magical items.  What magic item a PC has looks like it will be incredibly important on figuring PC damage.  You may want to wait until the DMG is available before going hog wild on the houserules.

Cool.
But my point there was damage numbers look really high. Magic weapons or not the damage has grown a lot especially in relation to the HP numbers but I agree its not something I am worrying about now just curious as to experience on here.

Quote from: Will;799435Aaaah, yeah, I was confused, jibbajabba, because you said 'Advantage' and the rule you are discussing has absolutely nothing to do with Advantage. At all.

You take highest when you have Advantage, but that only applies to 'to hit' rolls, not damage.

I apologize for the venom earlier, but MAN you are confusing to talk to.

no I was saying I was thinking of replacing the GWF effect with advantage because its simpler, creates an effect more comparable to duelist's +2 damage but most importantly is seen to have an effect. If you use the GWF as written, in our experience from play, using a d10 weapon it simply comes up very rarely. 80% of the time it has no effect. That felt weak next to the +2 flat on all damage rolls.

I apologise if I am difficult to follow its probably cos I an having multiple conversations at once and some of them overlap.

Quote from: Old One Eye;799556Going by the Starter Set and HotDQ, it looks like additional d6es of damage will be very common in the magical items.

It is also common with many damage-boosting spells like Hex.

Makes me wonder if there is a pattern to keep magical attacks on par with mundane weapon attacks?

Quote from: jibbajibba;799570Cool.
But my point there was damage numbers look really high. Magic weapons or not the damage has grown a lot especially in relation to the HP numbers but I agree its not something I am worrying about now just curious as to experience on here.

There is something that i haven't really come across yet, and i wonder whether is a factor in play.

Basically, monsters have artificially inflated hit points compared to characters of a level they are expected to fight. I understand the reason for it - so that a single monster can be a proper threat to a party of characters.

Damage output of the characters seems to be designed to match this, but seems excessive if you apply it to other PCs.

To anyone who has had their groups fight other classed NPCs, how have the combats run? I imagine short and brutal.

Quote from: jibbajibba;799567Well them and anyone that picks up Eldrich blast as a cantrip

You could with the Magic Initiate: Warlock feat but it's not the best choice given EK's are fighters and already have enough stats to pump up without adding CHA in the mix or multiclassing into Warlock. It'd be better to be a Valor Bard and do it with that feat because at 14th level they could use EB at Disadvantage with a bonus weapon attack in melee to full effect. An EK could do the same at 7th level but it's doubtful that they would ever have maximum Charisma.

Also a VB could just use a spell instead as long as it's considered a Bard spell instead at 14th level or an EK can do the same at 18th level but by that time EK's can make 3 weapon attacks one round then whatever cantrip or spell with a bonus weapon attack the following round. You would be at disadvantage for your attack roll but they'd be at disadvantage to your spell save, you'd want War Caster in either case.

Quote from: jibbajibba;799570Cool.
But my point there was damage numbers look really high. Magic weapons or not the damage has grown a lot especially in relation to the HP numbers but I agree its not something I am worrying about now just curious as to experience on here.

The numbers are high but it's on both sides so it only LOOKS weird. Remember magic items aren't a requirement like 3/4e or highly suggested like 0-2e. Not sure about noncombatant NPC's I would guess it'd be short and brutal. Combatant NPC's in a group are absolutely deadly.

Quote from: Skyrock;799575It is also common with many damage-boosting spells like Hex.

Makes me wonder if there is a pattern to keep magical attacks on par with mundane weapon attacks?

Yes in a way, that is extra attacks are equated to specific spell levels (3, 6, 9). Spells typically are more powerful but spell slots are constricted so it comes out as spike damage not regular like a physical attack.

Evokers are pretty good blasters but sorcerers and warlocks are probably better because of metamagic and how you can use spell points to create spell slots or spell slots to create spell points and eldritch blast respectively.

Quote from: jibbajibba;799573I apologise if I am difficult to follow its probably cos I an having multiple conversations at once and some of them overlap.

Fair enough, sorry!

Quote from: One Horse Town;799576There is something that i haven't really come across yet, and i wonder whether is a factor in play.

Basically, monsters have artificially inflated hit points compared to characters of a level they are expected to fight. I understand the reason for it - so that a single monster can be a proper threat to a party of characters.

Damage output of the characters seems to be designed to match this, but seems excessive if you apply it to other PCs.

To anyone who has had their groups fight other classed NPCs, how have the combats run? I imagine short and brutal.

This is exactly my point.
My games have been people versus people most of the time for years. I tend to favour very small numbers of powerful monsters, that are really monsters, and then make most of the other enemies human. Occassional I skin them as a humanoid but often as not they are bandits, thieves, crusaders or whatever.
Now it might well be that this new model suits that mode of play, lots of glass canons knocking but we will see.

Quote from: Marleycat;799582You could with the Magic Initiate: Warlock feat but it's not the best choice given EK's are fighters and already have enough stats to pump up without adding CHA in the mix or multiclassing into Warlock. It'd be better to be a Valor Bard and do it with that feat because at 14th level they could use EB at Disadvantage with a bonus weapon attack in melee to full effect. An EK could do the same at 7th level but it's doubtful that they would ever have maximum Charisma.

Also a VB could just use a spell instead as long as it's considered a Bard spell instead at 14th level or an EK can do the same at 18th level but by that time EK's can make 3 weapon attacks one round then whatever cantrip or spell with a bonus weapon attack the following round. You would be at disadvantage for your attack roll but they'd be at disadvantage to your spell save, you'd want War Caster in either case.

Not a charop question just a point that the only people outside fighters who get more than 2 attacks a round are those that take the EB cantrip. Whatever class they are (although obviously that requires a feat).

Just a flag that the EB cantrip (and the cantrips in general) is a bit more than just a backup so the wizard doesn't need to carry a bag of daggers which was how it was origially pitched.

Quote from: Marleycat;799585The numbers are high but it's on both sides so it only LOOKS weird. Remember magic items aren't a requirement like 3/4e or highly suggested like 0-2e. Not sure about noncombatant NPC's I would guess it'd be short and brutal. Combatant NPC's in a group are absolutely deadly.

Damage is high compared to PC Hit points.
The ratio is very different from old editions.  

This is probably deliberate to create shorter combats but has a huge effect on things like when to start new characters as I suspect level differences will be pronouced, not to mention PvP combat.

Quote from: jibbajibba;799600This is exactly my point.
My games have been people versus people most of the time for years. I tend to favour very small numbers of powerful monsters, that are really monsters, and then make most of the other enemies human. Occassional I skin them as a humanoid but often as not they are bandits, thieves, crusaders or whatever.
Now it might well be that this new model suits that mode of play, lots of glass canons knocking but we will see.

The MM (both printed and free PDF) have quite a few NPCs to use for getting an idea of how many HPs works for the damage output of a party. Changing equipment will have a big impact, but it is pretty easy to gauge using the examples provided.