Quote from: Old Geezer;789926God damn it.

Since the stupid fucking "stats" argument appears to be going to happen anyway, here.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?633165-So&p=15784375#post15784375

Start at 662 and end at 719.  And if you want to continue to wave your dick around about stats, do it in that thread.

"All this has happened before, and it will all happen again."  -- J.M Barrie, Peter Pan

Pee holes aside, that was a hell of a fun thread to read.

A bit OT: oddly, almost no one ever played a thief in my old group; granted, this was 75-79, and out in podunk florida, so greyhawk was still quite new, and xeroxed lbbs were the rule, but still.....I'm trying to remember any straight thieves, and I can't . Some nonhumans took split levels, but they always played them as (say) dwarves with benefits. ( bad mental image, there, sorry).

Quote from: Phillip;790156Some frank critiques  can't help but seem put-downs to some people because when we get down to it,  some behaviors simply are  dysfunctional. Bad sportsmanship, antisocial rejection of the norms and even essential purpose of the affair, bad faith in communication, paranoia toward others founded on being untrustworthy oneself: These are personal failings, not failures of game design.

Exactly.

Quote from: Phillip;790161Manufacturing jobs in a metal fabrication shop - or a textile shop, or whatever - are simply  not what early gamers had in mind as the subject of fantastic adventure. That's why they did  not even think of filling pages with rules for such things.

When Gary read the part of EPT that lets you be a weaver or an armorer, he said "who cares?"

What was Conan training to be?  Conan the Librarian?  In the movie Daddy was a blacksmith, but did little Coney ever get trained?  Conan the Embroiderer?  Conan the Slosh Pusher in a Slook Mill?

In OD&D it takes 2000 XP, which means pretty much 2000 GP, to hit second level.

If I need a saddle, I can buy a fucking saddle.

Quote from: Old Geezer;789926God damn it.

Since the stupid fucking "stats" argument appears to be going to happen anyway, here.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?633165-So&p=15784375#post15784375

Start at 662 and end at 719.  And if you want to continue to wave your dick around about stats, do it in that thread.

"All this has happened before, and it will all happen again."  -- J.M Barrie, Peter Pan

Lizard: "If  there's a 1-in-380 chance of getting an 18..."
Bren at RPG Net: "Nit picky point, it's 1/256."


Old Geezer in post #719: Gevalt.

I love OD&D...but my OD&D is my own and may be quite different than your OD&D. And that's why I love it. FOR ME, rulesets that allow me to tinker and customize to my vision of the setting are among my most favorite.

Quote from: Old Geezer;789675I've stated often I'll play almost anything, but it's hard to get me to buy.  SC asked me to start a separate thread.

Thank you OG!

BTW, did you ever come across a pirate RPG called CRIMSON CUTLASS? It was written by George "Red" Rahm and Conrad Hilllmer back in the 80s. Small print run, but amazingly great stuff.

Here's my semi-review from ancient times:
http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/classic/rev_5225.phtml

Quote from: Old Geezer;789675Also, I got into this in the pre D&D years of "Tell me what you want to do, I'll tell you what dice to roll and what happens."  That's still how I like to play.

Me too. I am happy to trust that a good GM and good players will make the game the most fun possible. It's all about getting that good crew.

Quote from: Old Geezer;789675I bought Fantasy Hero in the mid 80s and both ran it and played it a while.

That was back when Hero games was in San Mateo, California (south of SF and north of Silicon Valley). Our local game club was the go-to playtesting for them and I got to playtest early versions of Fantasy Hero and Autoduel Champions. Much fun at the time, but oy vey, I can't imagine playing either every again because of the complexity.

Quote from: Old Geezer;789675I bought Champions because it was the first superhero game that really worked well, and somebody locally was very enthusiastic about running it.

What were your thoughts on Villains & Vigilantes? Heroes Unlimited? We played lots of V&V, but I never had a copy until a few years ago. When I read the actual game, I couldn't believe how much our GM had houseruled our game into something so much better than the nigh-incomprehensible mess that was early V&V.

Quote from: Old Geezer;789675I didn't even buy the Fiend Folio because I figured "if I need more monsters I can just make them up."

The AD&D Fiend Folio is my favorite "monster manual" because it was darker, more gonzo and creepier. FOR ME, its my gold standard of what I want in book of monsters.

Quote from: Old Geezer;789675I bought pretty much everything FASA ever did for Star Trek.  I loved that game.

FOR ME, the FASA system had to be beaten with a stick to make Star Trek work and in later years, we just used D6 with the FASA splats.

Quote from: Old Geezer;789675And frankly, most game companies do a really really shit job of selling their products.  "It's New!  And it's a Game!" really doesn't do it for me.

Marketing in the RPG world is painfully bad.

Quote from: Spinachcat;790433I love OD&D...but my OD&D is my own and may be quite different than your OD&D. And that's why I love it. FOR ME, rulesets that allow me to tinker and customize to my vision of the setting are among my most favorite.

That was the original point, indeed.

Quote from: Spinachcat;790433BTW, did you ever come across a pirate RPG called CRIMSON CUTLASS? It was written by George "Red" Rahm and Conrad Hilllmer back in the 80s. Small print run, but amazingly great stuff.

No, and it's too bad... I actually have a copy of the game "Flash Gordon and the Warriors of Mongo" by FGU, so I have some pretty obscure stuff!

Quote from: Spinachcat;790433Me too. I am happy to trust that a good GM and good players will make the game the most fun possible. It's all about getting that good crew.

It was in the late 70s that I first realized that the rule set was the least important part of the whole thing.

Quote from: Spinachcat;790433What were your thoughts on Villains & Vigilantes? Heroes Unlimited? We played lots of V&V, but I never had a copy until a few years ago.

We played once or twice.  The random chargen of the first edition gave you a game where one person could be playing Superman and the next is playing Arthur from "The Tick".

Quote from: Spinachcat;790433FOR ME, the FASA system had to be beaten with a stick to make Star Trek work and in later years, we just used D6 with the FASA splats.

Again, it's all about the group.  I probably played five or six different campaigns; finally I got one where all seven of us (bridge crew plus ref) all had a compatible vision of what "Star Trek" was.

Quote from: Phillip;790240Bren at RPG Net: "Nit picky point, it's 1/256."

I'm a mathematician. I can prove multiplication. I can't always do multiplication.

Quote from: Spinachcat;790433FOR ME, the FASA system had to be beaten with a stick to make Star Trek work and in later years, we just used D6 with the FASA splats.

We used the character generation rules and the source material. We extremely simplified the combat and other rules or just flat out ignored them. I'll echo that the main source of fun for that game were the people who were playing it and their characters.

Quote from: Old Geezer;790664Again, it's all about the group.  I probably played five or six different campaigns; finally I got one where all seven of us (bridge crew plus ref) all had a compatible vision of what "Star Trek" was.

Ok, now that sounds like an entertaining road to go down.  What was the compatible vision and what were some of the more outrageous incompatible visions?

Seconding CRKrueger's question.

Quote from: CRKrueger;790702What was the compatible vision and what were some of the more outrageous incompatible visions?

I find Star Trek hell to run at conventions because of how incompatible fan visions of ST can be, and don't start with the Series Wars issues of which ST is the right one to emulate.

In my ST D6 campaign, I actually ran using the Star Fleet Battles universe and the limited canon found in the early SFB books.

It became a Wild West Star Trek as competing empires were trying to score colonies, protect them and expand their territories across space.

BTW, there is a great Star Trek GM in the Bay Area named Kris Miller who runs the CelestiCon conventions. Kris solved the Gordian Knot of running ST at cons by running Mirror Universe with an all evil crew of the Next Generation Enterprise. Picard with a Fu Manchu stache! It worked brilliantly and amazingly made the players more coherent and more active in roleplaying and oddly, almost more authentic to Star Trek in a weird way.

Quote from: Spinachcat;790817BTW, there is a great Star Trek GM in the Bay Area named Kris Miller who runs the CelestiCon conventions. Kris solved the Gordian Knot of running ST at cons by running Mirror Universe with an all evil crew of the Next Generation Enterprise. Picard with a Fu Manchu stache! It worked brilliantly and amazingly made the players more coherent and more active in roleplaying and oddly, almost more authentic to Star Trek in a weird way.

That sounds amazing.

Quote from: Spinachcat;790817Picard with a Fu Manchu stache!

The laws of Trek physics demand in no uncertain terms that all possible ST universes explode before the awesomeness of this.

Also, all this talk of Star Trek gaming makes me even more frustrated that Prime Directive for Mongoose Traveller is still vaporware.

ADB's 20 year old macs and floppy disks are better then the latest PCs though...really. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Old Geezer;790664

Quote from: Spinachcat;790433BTW, did you ever come across a pirate RPG called CRIMSON CUTLASS? It was written by George "Red" Rahm and Conrad Hilllmer back in the 80s. Small print run, but amazingly great stuff.

Here's my semi-review from ancient times:
http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/classic/rev_5225.phtml

No, and it's too bad...

Here's more info about a later incarnation of the system of Crimson Cutlass:

http://rpggeek.com/thread/1055827/brief-overview

Crimson Cutlass became Barony, which became Rogue Swords of the Empire and Arabian Seass Tales.