The srd lacks the dancing monkey element, which is by far the major point of contention here.

Dunno about the Dragon article--how did you earn the points?

Quote from: Arminius;769051Dunno about the Dragon article--how did you earn the points?

'The DM may award hero points to a well played character who adheres to the aims of class and alignment.'

If that's the whole of it, I think the way it's phrased would be more palatable to the people that have trouble with the Basic rule as written. In the Dragon article it sounds like an occasional award that might be given at the same time as XP, at the end of an adventure or session. That softens the effect of "hunting" for Inspiration by means of token actions, because you'd have to sustain the role-play. It's also less specific--you just have to act your class/alignment, not hit a defined "story note".

But the Basic RAW also has language that implies there may be multiple "systems" or guidelines hidden away in the DMG; it doesn't promise that you're entitled to Inspiration. It may even be just explaining the concept in case it gets used--like the various mentions of Feats.

Reading through it (which I admit is bit of a struggle), it is a bit more complex.

Basically each character has a pool of Hero Points between zero and their character level. Remember this is AD&D so that's going to be a low number. It gets a bit more complex if you are multi-classed.

The Hero Points are earned by role play as above, and can be spent on either your own dice rolls or an opponent's. Each point spent moves the die by one pip in a direction of your choice. Modifying Damage dice is allowed.

The interesting thing is once spent, you lose the Hero Point until the next 'game day'. So you only actually have to role play once per level to get a full quota. you do not have to keep role playing to refresh them.

You had a pool of hero points you could spend.
You could have a max equal to your level.
You got them for good RPing and adhering to alignment and character.
The points were viable ONLY for that game day. Use em or lose em.
Villains and monsters could get hero points too.
The use of a point had to be declared before the roll.
Each point spent was a +1 or +5% on the roll. to hit, initiative, saves, charm, reactions, whatever. Preferrably with a reasoning for this little surge of activity.

The points could be used to give you a bonus in your roll or a penalty on an enemy roll. Sound familliar?

Quote from: jadrax;769071Reading through it (which I admit is bit of a struggle), it is a bit more complex.

Basically each character has a pool of Hero Points between zero and their character level. Remember this is AD&D so that's going to be a low number. It gets a bit more complex if you are multi-classed.

The Hero Points are earned by role play as above, and can be spent on either your own dice rolls or an opponent's. Each point spent moves the die by one pip in a direction of your choice. Modifying Damage dice is allowed.

The interesting thing is once spent, you lose the Hero Point until the next 'game day'. So you only actually have to role play once per level to get a full quota. you do not have to keep role playing to refresh them.

Reads pretty simple to me really.
Earn points for RPing. Max of your level, or if multiclassing, Level + 1/2 top secondary.
Points can be used for a +1/+5% on a roll.
Unused points are lost at the end of the day and you need to RP to get more.

One of you is saying the points refresh automatically. The other is saying you have to earn them fresh each day. (That makes more sense but you never know.) "Good roleplaying" is much broader than than hitting a keyword for a Scooby Snack.

It's a Dragon article. Not the D&D rules. It resembles something used in other, much more niche games such as James Bond 007, which deliberately aimed at a certain genre experience.

Quote from: Arminius;769166One of you is saying the points refresh automatically. The other is saying you have to earn them fresh each day. (That makes more sense but you never know.) "Good roleplaying" is much broader than than hitting a keyword for a Scooby Snack.

It's a Dragon article. Not the D&D rules. It resembles something used in other, much more niche games such as James Bond 007, which deliberately aimed at a certain genre experience.

Oh but a Dragon Article proves the mechanic was present and always used in AD&D didn't you know?

Quote from: Arminius;769166One of you is saying the points refresh automatically. The other is saying you have to earn them fresh each day. (That makes more sense but you never know.) "Good roleplaying" is much broader than than hitting a keyword for a Scooby Snack.

Its possible I misinterpreted what it meant by 'renew your points' but if that's the case, all the stuff about fining you half your points if you role playing badly makes little sense if your going to lose them all at midnight anyway.

Frankly, I don't rate the system as very good any way you read it.

The thing about these meta-systems is they often read as distasteful invitations to go through the motions for points, arm-twist players to force them to roleplay, or indulge in special-snowflake wallowing, but then

* The advocates say it's nothing like that, AND
* Regardless of what anyone says, they end up being like that sometimes, but not always. Sometimes the meta-system is houseruled, sometimes it's played within the letter, at least technically. I honestly don't think there's a strong correlation.

To me this means that the rules are often written badly. This is a case in point.

Note, I think a well-written rule doesn't necessarily produce the same effect everywhere. Look at the long/short rest rule--that's pretty nicely done.

Dragon was a wellspring of experimental ideas. Some worked, some didnt.

Never used the hero points as it was just more bookkeeping. Neet idea and fairly simple really. But wasnt our thing back then.

That issue also had Arena combat, Jousting, Fairs, Archery Tourneys for the competition theme that issue.

Also there was an article on Pain, the discussed hero point system, and playing characters in the stone age.

The pain + wounds article was interesting too. The more you suffered the more debilitated you got.

This though lead to what we now-a-days call the death spiral unfortunately.

I should think by Dragon 118 the death spiral was already old hat. It goes back at least to Melee (Metagaming, 1977), where a good hit would put you off-balance, a heavy one would knock you prone, and if you were down to your last few hit points, you were woozy.

Anyway somehow I've read the article and the method proposed was: you'd get a maximum pool of LEVEL hero points per refresh period (day, session, week, whatever). Your actual pool would be recalculated from time to time by the GM using the same performance rating system used for training in AD&D. So the pool could go up or down, but it did indeed refresh automatically instead of being an on-the-spot reward.

Quote from: Arminius;769384Anyway somehow I've read the article and the method proposed was: you'd get a maximum pool of LEVEL hero points per refresh period (day, session, week, whatever). Your actual pool would be recalculated from time to time by the GM using the same performance rating system used for training in AD&D. So the pool could go up or down, but it did indeed refresh automatically instead of being an on-the-spot reward.

We obviously read it very differently.

It specifically says

They must be earned through play and awarded by the GM.
They do not carry over from day to day.
They have a maximum based on level.
If they are all expended, they cannot be renewed until the next day.  It does not say they are renewed every day.

There's nothing in there about auto-renewal at all.

Every Hero Point must be awarded by the GM, clearly pointed out.

So, I'm kicking ass and taking names, and I amass the maximum number of Hero Points for the day, and then spend them all that same day kicking more ass and taking more names.

Next day I start all over again, having to earn the points up to my maximum, rinse repeat daily.  If I spend the day putzing around town shopping, no Hero Points.

Simple.

EDIT: I also hate you both for making me look in a Dragon that had Wormy in it.  (sigh) Rest in Peace Dave.

..And going back, or circling back, as we say...

I don't need any mechanics that move players away from the IC perspective.  But I am one game table and one opinion.  If it brings others to the table, or makes other games better, good for the hobby.  
I could care less if it was in a Dragon mag, or when it came in.  I'm happier with a game with more options for different game styles.