Quote from: robiswrong;766533Exactly.  It exists outside the model of the world - it is a totally OOC and dissociated concept.  This is not arguable in any reasonable way.

You'd think.

Quote from:  robiswrong;766533What *is* arguable is how damaging it is to overall immersion.
Personally, placing the *exact center* of where I want my fireball to go in 3.x to maximize damage while minimizing damage to allies is at least as immersion-breaking as the Inspiration mechanic.  Your mileage may, and probably does, vary.

It probably won't surprise you if I tell you that when we played, we never knew exactly the dimensions of the area we were in, and dropping the fireball exactly where you wanted it was an Int check.

As for immersion breaking, we know from doing this dance before, you and I have different threshold levels of "tolerable" OOC.  That's fine.  The difference between you and other people is, you at least can see it is OOC, and I think you might agree that as such it's not a Roleplaying tool, but more of a nod to Fate-like game players.

I think the crux of the matter with inspiration will only be as good as the GM using it. But oddly, I can also see it as a learning tool to teach good GM'ing.

Quote from: Bill;766572Dnd has worked just fine for me for 35 years of heavy gaming.

Then 5e should too, because I can't see how removing this rule would break the game. Unless I missed something?

Quote from: Bill;766572Dnd has worked just fine for me for 35 years of heavy gaming.  The best guide for roleplay is playing an rpg with roleplayers.

Yeppers.

Quote from: Necrozius;766577Then 5e should too, because I can't see how removing this rule would break the game. Unless I missed something?

Agreed.

In my case, I happen to think it is a completely useless rule, so I will ignore it.

If others like the rule, and enjoy it, good for them.

I can simply hope no one I play 5e with uses it. But its not a dealbreaker either way.

Quote from: dragoner;766576I think the crux of the matter with inspiration will only be as good as the GM using it. But oddly, I can also see it as a learning tool to teach good GM'ing.

Or teaches bad gming.

Quote from: Bill;766581Or teaches bad gming.

Anything good can be used for bad. I'm sure some philosopher has said that (I'm an engineer).

Works pretty well for my group, at least after one session. We treat it like willpower or focus. Do something that is tied to your personality or desires and you dig a little deeper, try a little harder. No more out of character than level or AC or any other abstract measure in the game.

Let's try this, McBobbo.  At this point I'm not really sure what you're arguing, it appears to be my use of metaphor? So I'll just be clear.

Do you think Inspiration can train someone to roleplay?
I do not.

Do you think the purpose of Inspiration is to serve as a Roleplaying training tool?  I think the purpose of Inspiration is to give the Fate/DW crowd something.

Quote from: Bill;766572The best guide for roleplay is playing an rpg with roleplayers.

I agree with this, but in the current gaming climate I am not sure the % chance of a new player finding a roleplayer to play with are that high.

So long as people are attempting to role-play I don't care what their motivation is. If Sir Petyr the Bold is defending the children in a house from a demon, I don't care if it's because the player thinks that's what Sir Petyr would do OR if he's doing it because Sir Petyr might receive inspiration from the DM to have a mechanically beneficial effect occur if the DM is using those rules. All I know is that Sir Petyr is doing is part as a Knight and his chivalry is clearly apparent.

Now the more often the Player does this and receives nothing for his "troubles" we'll see a sort of decline for acting in character, but I think that's far more a DM problem than a player one, especially if the DM announces that they're using the Inspiration mechanic for their games.

I'm surprised how bent out of shape some of you are about game elements that pull you out of character. Apparently this is such an important thing that it gets its own acronym! What the fuck? Aren't you out of character when you eat bugles or roll dice or go to the bathroom or whatever? And who wants to be immersed in their character for 5 continuous hours, anyway - it is sort of creepy. I'm perfectly able to enjoy playing my character and having him or her act, in game, in some appropriate way even though I know I'm playing a game and there are rules that come into play.

Quote from: Necrozius;766577Then 5e should too, because I can't see how removing this rule would break the game. Unless I missed something?

Nope. You are right.

Quote from: Larsdangly;766631I'm surprised how bent out of shape some of you are about game elements that pull you out of character. Apparently this is such an important thing that it gets its own acronym! What the fuck? Aren't you out of character when you eat bugles or roll dice or go to the bathroom or whatever? And who wants to be immersed in their character for 5 continuous hours, anyway - it is sort of creepy. I'm perfectly able to enjoy playing my character and having him or her act, in game, in some appropriate way even though I know I'm playing a game and there are rules that come into play.

I never really understood it either. The whole "Dissociative Mechanic" thing has really been beaten to death by now. Additionally, many D&D's mechanics could be considered by some to be Dissociative: such as Level and Hit Points or Spell Slots (It works in Jack Vance's stories but I fail to see that same level of acceptance in any D&D novel to date). Yet those are apparently OK (because they're necessary?) but things like Inspiration points or (heaven forbid) Fighter Daily powers *ensue collective gasp* are right out.

I think the best thing, however, is that it's easily ignored by people who don't like the gimmick but works well for those who might want to use it. I know I certainly will, especially because I have a player who LOVES using 3E's flaws (RPG Nexus ones, not the "official" ones) and the Daredevil one in particular. Anytime he can pull off some radical stunt just for show deserves some sort of reward, even if he'll do it anyways.

Quote from: Larsdangly;766631I'm surprised how bent out of shape some of you are about game elements that pull you out of character. Apparently this is such an important thing that it gets its own acronym! What the fuck? Aren't you out of character when you eat bugles or roll dice or go to the bathroom or whatever? And who wants to be immersed in their character for 5 continuous hours, anyway - it is sort of creepy. I'm perfectly able to enjoy playing my character and having him or her act, in game, in some appropriate way even though I know I'm playing a game and there are rules that come into play.

Any RPG session includes tons of non-roleplay.  When I am actually "playing the game", though, I prefer it to be while Roleplaying.  That's why I play Roleplaying games, after all.