Is the whole "fighters do damage even when they miss" thing still in 5e?

thedungeondelver · July 01, 2014, 05:51:23 PM

It's kind of a dealbreaker beyond peeking at the rules and giving the starter set a try, so I'd like to know.

jadrax · July 01, 2014, 05:53:40 PM

Quote from: thedungeondelver;763206It's kind of a dealbreaker beyond peeking at the rules and giving the starter set a try, so I'd like to know.

I don't believe so; certainly the Ogre no longer has it or the pre-gen fighters.

thedungeondelver · July 01, 2014, 05:55:04 PM

That's good to hear.

Omega · July 01, 2014, 06:58:45 PM

Quote from: thedungeondelver;763209That's good to hear.

Why the concern? It was one of three or four possible tracks a fighter could take and it only did STR bonus damage. It wasnt like the Barbarian who could get a second attack if he missed, or the mage who can gain a trick where if a cantrip misses or is saved vs, it still does half damage.

Fighter getting a measly 1-4 damage depending on STR is small time.

Or are you outraged that the fighter is getting short changed? :rolleyes:

Marleycat · July 01, 2014, 07:25:23 PM

Quote from: Omega;763231Why the concern? It was one of three or four possible tracks a fighter could take and it only did STR bonus damage. It wasnt like the Barbarian who could get a second attack if he missed, or the mage who can gain a trick where if a cantrip misses or is saved vs, it still does half damage.

Fighter getting a measly 1-4 damage depending on STR is small time.

Or are you outraged that the fighter is getting short changed? :rolleyes:

I never got the outrage either it's not a general fighter ability like action surge or second wind.

crkrueger · July 01, 2014, 07:36:28 PM

Probably because even though the abstract definition of HPs allows for such a thing, the implementation used was ludicrous.

Sacrosanct · July 01, 2014, 07:38:40 PM

yay, are we gonna have this argument again?

crkrueger · July 01, 2014, 07:43:50 PM

Quote from: Sacrosanct;763246yay, are we gonna have this argument again?

No need to argue:

Quote from: Sacrosanct;762290I will admit damage on a miss rubs me the wrong way a bit, but I'm not going to get all worked up about it because I can sort of rationalize it thus:

It only applies to great weapons. If you've ever held up a shield and got hit by someone wielding a large weapon, even if they didn't break through your defenses per se, it still hurt your arm.

That doesn't explain compete whiffs though.... If it stayed in (and my understanding is that it's removed), I'd houserule it to where if you missed by 5 or more, you don't apply the damage.

We agree it was implemented poorly, we might quibble as to how poor, but it's out I think so...

Sacrosanct · July 01, 2014, 08:01:02 PM

oh, I wasn't talking about you and me. The argument in general

Necrozius · July 01, 2014, 08:05:08 PM

I always rationalized that a miss in D&D wasn't always a complete whiff, but an abstraction of things like weapons glancing off armour or shields and parrying. So I can see why, even if a targets armour, shield or sword parry could stop an attack the defender is still reeling back from the impact or effort.

Natty Bodak · July 01, 2014, 08:20:55 PM

At-will auto-damage at first level (whether it's the Essentials style Slayer or magic missile cantrip seen in the playtests, both thankfully seemingly aborted) put the adwrongfu in badwrongfun.

F that noise.

Marleycat · July 01, 2014, 08:28:45 PM

Quote from: Necrozius;763251I always rationalized that a miss in D&D wasn't always a complete whiff, but an abstraction of things like weapons glancing off armour or shields and parrying. So I can see why, even if a targets armour, shield or sword parry could stop an attack the defender is still reeling back from the impact or effort.

That's my take also, it makes a lot more sense when you split HP into wounds/vitality.

Exploderwizard · July 01, 2014, 08:41:33 PM

Well on Thursday the character creation rules get released online. You can check whats in that for nothing.

thedungeondelver · July 01, 2014, 09:06:56 PM

Quote from: Omega;763231Why the concern? It was one of three or four possible tracks a fighter could take and it only did STR bonus damage. It wasnt like the Barbarian who could get a second attack if he missed, or the mage who can gain a trick where if a cantrip misses or is saved vs, it still does half damage.

Fighter getting a measly 1-4 damage depending on STR is small time.

Or are you outraged that the fighter is getting short changed? :rolleyes:

Whoop I needed a 10 to get to free parking I rolled a 9 guess that means I make it because I'm the car

wait what

Brad · July 01, 2014, 09:12:25 PM

Damage on misses just seems stupid to me. Even to the point where, I like 13th Age, but am not going to play it because it's literally that fucking stupid.