Quote from: robiswrong;762529Nope, not at all.  It's the right move to make.  Most people are playing "Big Damn Heroes" and so a new edition of the game should support that.

Exactly.  Especially since it's not like all the words suddenly fell off the pages of my copies of the LBB.

The fact that I don't like that style of game doesn't mean that's not what most people like.  If 80% of your customers want that, spend 80% of your effort on providing that thing.

There is a difference between "running a business" and "taste in gaming."

Quote from: robiswrong;762547No doubt.  Making something that didn't look like D&D was probably the *biggest* mistake they made with 4e.  Almost worse, it fell into the "uncanny valley" in a lot of ways.



Fortunately, nobody seems to be saying that someone playing other than the way they prefer is a rogue nuclear warhead.  Go team!

Don't be such a twerp, when the attitude - not a particular set of words -  is so obviously the topic. Have you been in Antarctica for the past 14 years, or even just the past 6?

Quote from: estar;759314A couple of points that I want to add to your excellent summary of the situation.

1) Pundit and many other don't get that the "forum" side you talk about is a akin to Chess Club where the focus and indeed the point of its existence is Chess. In case of Dragonsfoot, K&KA, OD&D Forum, etc they are "clubs" focused on classic D&D.  If they get testy or ornery is because dickheads are doing the equivalent of going into the club and telling the chess players they should playing checkers or go. That their game sucks because it is old and obsolete.

2) Pundit failed (and continues to fail as showing by his OSR Taliban rant) to realize there was NEVER any gatekeepers. The Indie Press Revolution was founded when in Print on Demand was infancy and traditional print runs were the only viable recourse for getting hard copy of a book. So naturally it acted as a gatekeeper.

But the OSR was born during the rights of Print on Demand and grew up along side Lulu, and Lightning Source (RPGNow/Drivethru RPG). Plus right in the middle of its initial years, tablets came out making PDFs viable as a primary reading format. By 2010, the possibility of any gatekeeper or bottleneck went down the shitter.

As Pundit demonstrated with Arrows of Indra anybody can just write and get material published. Heck Arrows of Indra demonstrated that you can go with a quasi-traditional publisher-author arrangement to get material out there. Rather than forced to do everything on your own.

Promotion is the only area of the OSR where certain individuals or groups has an outsize impact. Even if a person thoroughly pisses off that group off, they still can't block anybody or even slow down what that person publishes and promotes.

Anybody reading this and willing and can put in the work can have a OSR product out. Can find more than a few people willing to help promote it or help with things like art, layout, edits, etc. They can piss off nearly all of the OSR and still get their project out there.

In fact is somehow they managed to piss off 100% of the OSR there are other groupings of people publishing independently (Fate, etc) that can be tapped for help or promotion.

Oh I agree and am well aware that there are no EFFECTIVE gatekeepers in the OSR.  The democratization of publishing has saved the OSR from the type of situation where only the cool-kids-club gets to decide what gets published, thank Zeus.

But that doesn't mean there aren't WOULD-BE gatekeepers.  Fortunately, unless something were to radically change, they're kind of doomed to fail; their only weapon is shouting loud enough about what is or is not allowed to be OSR and hope to sway the opinion of OSR-fans away from certain products while going out of their way to promote the type of products and style of play they like.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Phillip;762550Don't be such a twerp, when the attitude - not a particular set of words -  is so obviously the topic. Have you been in Antarctica for the past 14 years, or even just the past 6?

Okay, so let's be clear about this.  I've asked you this before, and you didn't answer directly:

Are you saying that I am the one shitting on people that aren't playing the way I want?

Quote from: Sacrosanct;762290I will admit damage on a miss rubs me the wrong way a bit, but I'm not going to get all worked up about it because I can sort of rationalize it thus:

It only applies to great weapons.  If you've ever held up a shield and got hit by someone wielding a large weapon, even if they didn't break through your defenses per se, it still hurt your arm.

That doesn't explain compete whiffs though....  If it stayed in (and my understanding is that it's removed), I'd houserule it to where if you missed by 5 or more, you don't apply the damage.

My problem exactly.

The thing is that HPs represent skill and luck and stamina and a load of stuff. So when the guy with the great sword hits you we aren't saying the sword bites into your shoulder or hacks out of chunk of bone we are saying that you avoid most of the damage by skill and luck and stuff so instead of taking damage you expend some HPs to mitigate the wound.
If he does damage on a miss this means that the damage he does is somehow different from the damage when he hits but its described in exactly the same way, it's fatigue and stamina like having your shield bashed, but hold on if that is the case then it's the same as what happens when he hits and what if he literally swings his sword and misses by 2 feet and you stand unmoving how does that do "damage".

Quote from: jibbajibba;762625My problem exactly.

The thing is that HPs represent skill and luck and stamina and a load of stuff. So when the guy with the great sword hits you we aren't saying the sword bites into your shoulder or hacks out of chunk of bone we are saying that you avoid most of the damage by skill and luck and stuff so instead of taking damage you expend some HPs to mitigate the wound.
If he does damage on a miss this means that the damage he does is somehow different from the damage when he hits but its described in exactly the same way, it's fatigue and stamina like having your shield bashed, but hold on if that is the case then it's the same as what happens when he hits and what if he literally swings his sword and misses by 2 feet and you stand unmoving how does that do "damage".

What? I thought the discussion moved past the silliness of hitpoints?

Quote from: Marleycat;762630What? I thought the discussion moved past the silliness of hitpoints?

Well this discussion was on dissociated mechanics and the miss and still do damage one in particular.

I am sorry if I can't keep pace with the debate but being in Singapore has that effect sometimes ....

On the more recently posted topic I woudl say. D&D needs a lifepath system for creating higher level PCs (and cos it woudl be fun) I knocked one up myself a while back after all it's almost trivial in terms of effort.

I think a template lifepath system with instructions for the DM on how to tailor it to their own campaign would be a great idea. In a section of the DMG called "Creating higher level PCs: Option 3- Lifepath Sytem"

Quote from: jibbajibba;762646Well this discussion was on dissociated mechanics and the miss and still do damage one in particular.

I am sorry if I can't keep pace with the debate but being in Singapore has that effect sometimes ....

On the more recently posted topic I woudl say. D&D needs a lifepath system for creating higher level PCs (and cos it woudl be fun) I knocked one up myself a while back after all it's almost trivial in terms of effort.

I think a template lifepath system with instructions for the DM on how to tailor it to their own campaign would be a great idea. In a section of the DMG called "Creating higher level PCs: Option 3- Lifepath Sytem"

It's okay Jibba, I would love any kind of lifepath system for Dnd though.