Quote from: Marleycat;759965Be careful it resembles 2e more then 1e (you really prefer good ability scores in your primary/secondary/tertiary, something like 16/15/14 works nicely).

You don't need maximum scores like 3/4e but it does matter like 1/2e.

Unless something changed since the playtest we are running, I am aware of what you are talking about. It is a touch more cascading impact on integrated parts through that stat mod. Harder to tweak too due to that interconnection. But overall the feel is close enough to 2e to be passable.

IME, 2e characters don't really need much more than a 9 in their chosen class prereq. The rest is gravy to judicious play.

Quote from: Opaopajr;760027Unless something changed since the playtest we are running, I am aware of what you are talking about. It is a touch more cascading impact on integrated parts through that stat mod. Harder to tweak too due to that interconnection. But overall the feel is close enough to 2e to be passable.

IME, 2e characters don't really need much more than a 9 in their chosen class prereq. The rest is gravy to judicious play.

I do think a 9 INT hits a wizard maybe a bit more. But really anybody with a 9 in their primary score? Not good.

Quote from: Marleycat;760041I do think a 9 INT hits a wizard maybe a bit more. But really anybody with a 9 in their primary score? Not good.

9 INT on a wizard means you'd make it up to level 4 spells. That is good to level 9 and past. You'll fail spell learning 35%. but you ccan try again later.

9 STR as noted for a fighter is the threshold for being baseline. No bonuses or penalties.

9 WIS on a cleric means no extra spells and a 20% chance spell failure.

9 DEX means no bonus or penalty to combat. But a -10% on most thieving skills. -20 on move silent.

The Fighter gets it the easiest.. The magic user close second. The Thief and the cleric get the most downside to a 9.

In 5e though a 9 gets you a -1 penalty. 10-11 is the new baseline.

I was thinking it dogged the Rogue but the Cleric hit that bad? Surprising. I usually played fighters, wizards, fighter/mages or bards in 2e. Sometimes rangers (non drizzit types).

Quote from: Marleycat;760048I was thinking it dogged the Rogue but the Cleric hit that bad? Surprising. I usually played fighters, wizards, fighter/mages or bards in 2e. Sometimes rangers (non drizzit types).

Well its only a 1 in 5 chance the cleric will botch a spell.

Continuing, a 9 CON meant you had a 65% chance of system shock survival, and a 75% chance to be successfully raised. No penalty to HP.

9 CHA garnered no bonus or penalty. 4 henchmen tops.

AD&D was mean like that. Yeah.

Luckily since you were likely to be using the 4d6h3 default, low ranges like 9 werent as likely.

Though hilariously I was just rolling a test set and for the first time ever got a 3 with it. (and two 9s.)

Even then, it's still not crippling. A thief can switch to occasional no armor for bonuses, or focus on different skills. A priest is already solid as is. And the fighter sits rather pretty in early levels and by 9th has a spare army.

The wizard still has an array of spells to still find and learn — the amount of 1st thru 4th spells out there is stupendous, esp. see Encyclopedia Magica — and every level brings another to-learn re-roll. By higher levels extra gold gets more ablative armor, a.k.a. hirelings. And once you can start crafting magic items it becomes a source for XP (and quests!) as well as buffering your entourage.

Is it lvl 9 spells? No. But what is? Besides, anything like a well timed Grease spell at the top of the stairs can leave you "inheriting" new spellbooks as anything else. All those potential spells are useless if you didn't memorize them that day, just like a fighter's gear when caught naked.

Taking advantage of the situation is the name of the game. It was something I was missing dearly from modern games I played in.

Quote from: Omega;760050Luckily since you were likely to be using the 4d6h3 default, low ranges like 9 werent as likely.

Though hilariously I was just rolling a test set and for the first time ever got a 3 with it. (and two 9s.)

Ooh, save it and give it to me. I could use another flavorful NPC hireling in my rosters.

Quote from: Opaopajr;760076Ooh, save it and give it to me. I could use another flavorful NPC hireling in my rosters.

In order was. 3, 17, 7, 9, 9, 10.

I think I rolled up the ghost of Otiluke... Someone get me some gauntlets of Kobold Power!

Something interesting I noted with Next's playtest point by method. The more you min-maxed stats. The less actual total stats you ended up with.

13 in each stat netted the max. 78, While trying for a pair of 16s netted the least. 70. (16, 16, 13, 9, 8, 8,)

And the default array matched the point buy limit of 30 points. (16, 14, 13, 12, 10,

never used "standard arrays" always a variety of random stat generation.  might include roll 4 drop 1 or roll stats, one re-roll.  a few times used both, but not often.  arrays just seem too . . . cookie-cutter?  like just using templates in some systems, rather than pick & choose, mix & match.

Way awesome stats! Took five and whipped up a little monster I was actually needing lately for noble courts:

Algernon, Page Boy (and Spy)
Class: Rogue, Thief.   Lvl: 1.   HD: d6.  Align: NG
STR 3.   -3 to-hit, -1 dmg, 5 Wgt Alw
DEX 17.   -3 AC, +2 react adj., +2 missile to-hit
CON 7.   55% sys. shk.
INT 9.    2 Langs.
WIS 9.
CHA 10.   4 Henchman

--Thief Skills--
Base   PP 15, OL 10 , F/RT 05, MS 10, HiS 05, DN 15, CW 60, RL --
Armor  PP 05, OL --, F/RT --, MS 10, HiS 05, DN --, CW 10, RL --
Dex     PP 05, OL 10, F/RT --, MS 05, HiS 05, DN --, CW --, RL --
1st lv.  PP 05, OL --, F/RT --, MS 05, HiS 05, DN 15, CW --, RL 30

Total.   PP 30, OL 20, F/RT 05, MS 30, HiS 20, DN 30, CW 70, RL 30

--WP/NWP--
WP - Dagger, Sling.    NWP - Forgery, Read Lips.

Looks: Page boy haircut, unisex period finery, delicate hands, androgynous, large naïf eyes, stoic rounded mouth, hazel eyes, raven hair, unblemished skin, frail.

Position: Employed as messenger youth doubling as discreet spy. Picks letters from pockets, overhears conversation, cat burgles intel, and forger. In emergency, relies on silence, social position, and naïf youth look to excuse from suspicion.

Excellent... :pundit:

I keep forgetting that 5e and some other versions have a different stat pattern.

I've always like randomness--that's why I usually do 4d6, drop lowest. In my C&C game, it's 4d6, drop lowest, assign in order, but you can swap two stats with other stats. It's sort of a compromise between playing the hand you're dealt and getting to tweak things. I've never liked standard array at all--I've just always thought rolling stats was a fun part of char gen.

I don't normally care about different stat generation methods that much, but the thread last week about Beyond the Wall encouraged me to check it out, and they have a really fascinating generation method in that. Each character starts off with a "play-book" for their life-path up to first level, for example a Witch's Apprentice or a Village Hero, and you start with 8 in each stat, but 12 in one (STR for the Village Hero), or 10 in two, I think WIS and INT for the Witch's Apprentice, then by rolling on random tables to do with backgrounds and life events, you add a +1 here, a +2 there, a skill, a spell ... And then in recent events, you even add, say, a +2 DEX to your character for a relevant event, and +1 DEX to the character OF THE PERSON SITTING TO YOUR LEFT, who was there with you and helped you out of a sticky situation. You add class abilities as you go, with relevant life events, and finally get a quirky item at the end, and standard equipment for your background. You end up with characters that often are left with 8 in one or two stats and maybe one 18, or else are more rounded across the board, but it's a fascinating way of tying stats to history, a little bit like the method evoked up-thread for rolling background in return for choosing stats, but here they actually impact each other, with the "story" of each stat and skill baked into your character. You play this as a mini-game going round the table and expanding on your character's history and those who grew up around you, even, in the more complex version, placing NPCs and locations on the gradually growing map of the village where you all grew up as you roll relevant life-events. It's really very cool indeed.

However, in my recent RuneQuest game, I went with what someone mentioned happens in FASERIP, where I got the players to just describe their characters to me, and then I chose their stats and skills, with a bit of back-and-forth and negotiation. It led to really cool characters, with no limits as regards classes and powers (though this is a feature of RuneQuest anyway), but the players felt really free to request a character they wanted to play, and even mentioned weaknesses and flaws, and it was up to me as the GM to translate their concepts into mechanics. No one had a problem with the stats I gave them ...

I did chargen for M&M today and the base game suggests a standard array of 10 in each attribute.

I gave the Players an option of using that or rolling. The rolling rules were they rolled 4d6 drop highest for 3 attributes (named and rolled in order) and 3d6 (named and rolled in order) for the other three.

They voted unanimously to roll not take 10s. Obviously its a game where you can increase those base attributes very easily (in fact you are almost rolling for a pool of attribute points you can distribute at whim so so the dice model I offered was going to mathematically yield a slight benefit over a straight pool of 60 points) but they still opted for a random generation.

Going to start Yet Another D&D(ish) campaign (probably Castles & Crusades because it requires zero effort on my part to run combats...I think I'm finally being swayed toward high AC vs. low AC w/table due to laziness). Most likely I'm going to use 3d5+3, which is mathematically equivalent to 3d6, reroll ones.

I suppose 2d6+6 would work just as well (when considering the lowest possible attribute modifier)...anyone have an opinion of that?