Quote from: Armchair Gamer;757227I think that depends on why they're playing those games. I expect 5E will draw a lot of its audience from PF and OSR fans who play those games for what might be called 'ancillary' reasons--support, popularity, etc.

I'm definitely playing in a Pathfinder game because it's pretty hard to find much else around here... except 4e and I'm not going there. So it's a compromise, there are dozens of games I'd rather be playing.
If the group jumps on 5e... well, I hope that I'll like it more than 3e/Pathfinder... certainly more than 4e. Under this GM at least. So that could be a good thing.
Running stuff however... I won't touch Pathfinder and I'm waiting on 5e to exist before I even consider running it. Meanwhile, plenty of great games.
So I'm firmly in the OP's 2-3 grouping.

Quote from: Saplatt;757217I think there are probably six categories of detractors:

1. Roleplaying Game Systems Experts who feel that 4es biggest failure was that IT DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH in distancing itself from previous editions of the game and are upset that WotC didn't hire them as consultants for 5e.

2. Butthurt 4e fans who are upset that they lost the Edition Wars and want to see 5e strangled in the cradle, or otherwise out-bomb 4e, so that they'll have someone lower on the failure ladder to piss on.

3. Butthurt 3e fans who are still suffering PTSD from 4e, most of whom have sworn allegiance to the One True Paizo Golem God and who will never, ever forgive WotC for their pain.

4. Long-lost fans of previous editions who are satisfied with their system and too cheap to buy a new one or too old and mentally challenged to be bothered with learning new rules, even if they are mostly the same as the old ones.

5. People who have a personal grudge against members or consultants of the WotC 5e team, for reasons that have nothing to do with the system.

6. Then, and only then, those who just don't give a damn and never will.

I think I'm Category 8 then--"Those who just don't give a damn, but might--still undecided"

I don't play typically play fantasy RPGs, but maybe 5e will be a good jumping on point, who knows. I tried 4e and it didn't really do much for me, and I've played ADnD a few times. My friend recently lamented that no one ever let her play DnD with them growing up so she never tried it. So maybe I'll do my first fantasy game with her. 5e will probably be a good place to start.

I will say this--I went from not very interested to greatly intrigued upon finding out the chargen stuff was all free!

Quote from: Saplatt;757217I think there are probably six categories of detractors:

1. Roleplaying Game Systems Experts who feel that 4es biggest failure was that IT DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH in distancing itself from previous editions of the game and are upset that WotC didn't hire them as consultants for 5e.

2. Butthurt 4e fans who are upset that they lost the Edition Wars and want to see 5e strangled in the cradle, or otherwise out-bomb 4e, so that they'll have someone lower on the failure ladder to piss on.

3. Butthurt 3e fans who are still suffering PTSD from 4e, most of whom have sworn allegiance to the One True Paizo Golem God and who will never, ever forgive WotC for their pain.

4. Long-lost fans of previous editions who are satisfied with their system and too cheap to buy a new one or too old and mentally challenged to be bothered with learning new rules, even if they are mostly the same as the old ones.

5. People who have a personal grudge against members or consultants of the WotC 5e team, for reasons that have nothing to do with the system.

6. Then, and only then, those who just don't give a damn and never will.

That's a damn good summary. And as others have pointed out, at least here people are kinda, sorta honest about which of the groups they fall into. And if they aren't, you can call them on their bullshit. The disingenuous remarks by the detractors on other forums are almost comical.

Quote from: JeremyR;757216Anyway, I think the big problem with 5e is apathy. There seem to be some people excited for it, but most seem largely "meh".

I think that general apathy is an edition thing, not a 5e thing. I'd love to see data from whatever HS and college gamers exist and see how much of the apathy is a generational thing too.

Quote from: Marleycat;757220What's funny about the situation is that this site is having the most balanced discussion about the game between ENWorld, TBP and the WotC boards and here.

Any links to particularly psycho threads?

Quote from: Mr. Kent;757249I don't play typically play fantasy RPGs, but maybe 5e will be a good jumping on point, who knows.

With the Basic PDF for free, it will be easy to see what 5e has to offer (just like with any quickstart). My big hope - and I know its beyond a long shot - is that WotC gives us 5e Star Frontiers.
 
I'd love to write for a Living Star Frontiers campaign. That would be a blast and the game has been fallow for so long that it might generate some real excitement.

Quote from: Spinachcat;757260Any links to particularly psycho threads?

Pretty much every 5E thread on the RPGsite gets immediately thread-crapped by a half-dozen regulars who are textbook:

Quote1. Roleplaying Game Systems Experts who feel that 4es biggest failure was that IT DIDN’T GO FAR ENOUGH in distancing itself from previous editions of the game and are upset that WotC didn’t hire them as consultants for 5e.

2. Butthurt 4e fans who are upset that they lost the Edition Wars and want to see 5e strangled in the cradle, or otherwise out-bomb 4e, so that they’ll have someone lower on the failure ladder to piss on.

Quote from: Saplatt;7572174. Long-lost fans of previous editions who are satisfied with their system and too cheap to buy a new one or too old and mentally challenged to be bothered with learning new rules, even if they are mostly the same as the old ones.

(my bolding)
So you're just feeling the need to insult folks who are happy with their gaming and don't see any reason to chase after the new hotness?... sounds like, "If you're not with us, you're against us!"
That's real inviting of ya!

@SpinachCat, I will try and linksie you when I have computer access tomorrow but you know how hard that is concerning TBP because of the climate and insta permabans. They try to bury any real discussion there if it's not clique approved.

Quote from: Simlasa;757264(my bolding)
So you're just feeling the need to insult folks who are happy with their gaming and don't see any reason to chase after the new hotness?... sounds like, "If you're not with us, you're against us!"
That's real inviting of ya!

I agree. That sir is what is known as trolling. It's fun you should try it sometime.

Quote from: Marleycat;757239Not sure I agree but it is nice that we have a place where anyone on the spectrum (OSR-----4e) can talk no holds barred no passive-aggressive sniping (because it's right upfront) or clique popularity stuff..

I'm reminded of Bill Cosby's take on cocaine.

Quote from: Marleycat;757282@SpinachCat, I will try and linksie you when I have computer access tomorrow but you know how hard that is concerning TBP because of the climate and insta permabans. They try to bury any real discussion there if it's not clique approved.

Thank you!

I expect RPG.net to be nutball, but how is ENworld and WotC discussion going? I pop over there irregularly and haven't seen a big 5e blowout.

Quote from: Spinachcat;757260My big hope - and I know its beyond a long shot - is that WotC gives us 5e Star Frontiers.
 
I'd love to write for a Living Star Frontiers campaign. That would be a blast and the game has been fallow for so long that it might generate some real excitement.

I'd be so down for all of this

My god...D&D...its full of stars!

Guys, you already have D&D in Space, its called Stars Without Number and Hulks & Horrors.

Quote from: Spinachcat;757260With the Basic PDF for free, it will be easy to see what 5e has to offer (just like with any quickstart). My big hope - and I know its beyond a long shot - is that WotC gives us 5e Star Frontiers.
 
I'd love to write for a Living Star Frontiers campaign. That would be a blast and the game has been fallow for so long that it might generate some real excitement.

Id love to see a new Star Frontiers. But. I know WOTC would fuck it up again as they did the last two and a half go-rounds. Same for Gamma World. And that is allmost certain to come out.

I doubt we'll see Buck Rogers which was in a way Star Frontiers retooled. Especially not with Loraine still causing Hasbro and WOTC indirect problems.

As for my outlook on Next. Playtest had alot of interesting elsments and some odd ones. The last few playtests really got my hopes up after the somewhat uninspiring start.

But. Unfortunately WOTCs record of mismanaging games means anything could go wrong between now and release. Mearls hasnt been exactly helping to keep hopes up either with some of his statements.

So all we can do is wait and see.

And yeah. Some of the 5e supporters are more than a little overblown. One or two in particular in near fanatic mode before the game is even released.

Quote from: languagegeek;757197You can read the gaming community working this stuff out back in early Dragon magazines. I don't think much progress has been made since.

Some random thoughts about the most vocal:

The arguing is more important than the argument. I hear the kids doing this all the time, or sports fans, or historians, or politicos...

A lot of people love D&D (their hockey team, their political party...) For some, they've sunk countless hours into the game, building a sort of personal relationship with it. To see a new version is to see someone else's D&D, that isn't quite how they'd do it. If the writers had only done X, it would be way better. Same thing happens in sports talk or political commentary or which Beatles' song is best.

For others, they seek community under the umbrella of the new thing. To see a new version is to see an opportunity to get involved with the upcoming new best thing. They are willing to overlook the not-quite-how-I'd-do-it parts to get in on the ground floor. In a similar way, some seek community under the old best thing and are willing to overlook aspets of their own games. At times these two clash in some sort of generational dominance thing (again, not a gaming-specific human trait.)

So we've got arguing to confirm one's relationship with the game, either personal or communal, or most likely a bit of both. The content of the debate is less important than the debate itself. Those on the "New thing" or "Old thing" side will argue for their position, and those on the "personal thing" will argue for the way they'd have done it. I don't know if this is good or bad, but it sure is human.

At the same time, there has been a good bit of rational debate as well as blatent trolling. So yeah, people.

This.

VS

Quote from: jeff37923;757318Guys, you already have D&D in Space, its called Stars Without Number and Hulks & Horrors.

Maybe Stars Without Number will become an easier sell to modern players once 5e sets the industry standard back to the lighter side of rule expectations. One can hope.