Quote from: Sacrosanct;754682where?  Quote me saying that, or shut the hell up already, you delusional whiner

Quote from: Sacrosanct;752691*Edit*  Because your post seems to strongly imply that the purpose of the game is to create your own characters.  You know do does think char gen is the purpose of the game?  Denners.  Is that the side you want to align with?

There you go.

Quote from: trechriron;754684More and more of the same...

Why does the past matter? Because the old way is the best way? In your opinion, but NOT in mine.

Character creation is not the ONLY thing. It's not the crown on the cake. It's an important part of the game, certainly, but not the MOST important. It doesn't need to be in a Starter Game. People CAN pick it up later, learn it later, and many of us (experienced mind you, not newbie) GMs agree with the sentiment.

You're just making the same tired arguments over and over.

Saying something 1000 fucking times doesn't make it so.

Your 1000 posts haven't changed our minds.

We hear you. We just think your wrong. Get over it.

This new war between the "Creating it Firsts" versus the "Playing it Firsts" has obviously come to an end. And the "Playing it Firsts" have won.

NOTHING you say is going to CHANGE ANYTHING. NOTHING. It's over. The lot has been cast. The dice have been rolled. So has it been decided!

• One Starter Set with pregens and no character creation
• One Basic Game with basic stuff including character creation
• A "pick and choose" what you will hardcover D&D line with as much or as little options as your heart desires.

We have chiseled your whiny nonsense into the halls of Grognardia where it will sit for all time to glare down upon the opposite wall...  and forgotten. For now into eternity the newbies will be learning D&D OUR WAY. The product will be as WE WANTED IT. You will be forgotten. Your lame words falling on nothingness as we stroll through the halls playing OUR game. Hailed as champions of a new era, bringing the joys of D&D to a world hungry for adventure and imagination!

Lay down your old ways. Pack up your old games. Display your dusty boxes and dog-eared tombs before us. And pay homage. And swear fealty to the new order!! If you cannot bear to surrender in your solemn defeat, then we shall cast you out to the RPG Wastelands, where you can practice your heresy outside the innocent hearing of the new ones we bring into the fold.

As the "Creating it Firsts" drudge out of our hallowed halls, heads hanging low, we will not mourn you. As you attempt to eek out your miserable existence in the RPG wastelands we will bid you no sorrow. For you looked up at the righteous glory of the 5th, and did not see the truth. We bid you one last farewell. Goodnight angry old men.

The End.

Trentin - Loyal champion of the Playing it Firsts. Conqueror of Grogtards.

tl:dr - We win. D&D is coming out the way we wanted it. You'll be forgotten. Nannie Nannie Boo Boo.

Amusing, didn't the 4E fans crow like this while that version was being rolled out?

See, I'm not just talking about D&D Next. Wizbros will do whatever they want with the game and the audience has no real input. I've been talking about RPGs in general for awhile now.

Quote from: trechriron;754684tl:dr - We win. D&D is coming out the way we wanted it. You'll be forgotten. Nannie Nannie Boo Boo.

Yes, but 5e will be forgotten, too.

Quote from: jeff37923;754685There you go.

begs the question: do you speak English?  This should be obvious to anyone with basic reading comprehension skills, but that quote of mine in no way means what you said it means.  Nothing in my quote even implies "You either like pregens or you must be a denner". It means what I said.  That saying that the entire purpose of the game is chargen is what the Denners are known for saying.

I have to assume at this point you either have some serious mental deficiencies, are impaired heavily by something, or are just trolling for the lulz

Quote from: Sacrosanct;754689begs the question: do you speak English?  This should be obvious to anyone with basic reading comprehension skills, but that quote of mine in no way means what you said it means.  Nothing in my quote even implies "You either like pregens or you must be a denner". It means what I said.  That saying that the entire purpose of the game is chargen is what the Denners are known for saying.

I have to assume at this point you either have some serious mental deficiencies, are impaired heavily by something, or are just trolling for the lulz

Thank you for proving my earlier point.

Bye-bye now!

Quote from: jeff37923;754686Amusing, didn't the 4E fans crow like this while that version was being rolled out?

See, I'm not just talking about D&D Next. Wizbros will do whatever they want with the game and the audience has no real input. I've been talking about RPGs in general for awhile now.

I'm not crowing. I'm declaring victory. Your nonsense has failed. We don't care if you're butt hurt about WOTC. The argument was about making characters first or playing first. Playing first won.

Also, remember all the consultants? Pundit was one of many. They are reaching out to Kobold Press as a design shop. They ARE listening. Just not to you. I get it. You want to be loved and you want people to listen to you and look upon your brilliance and be awed. It's cool. You just don't get that this time. Because you and yours have lost. You should read up and practice a bit so maybe next time people will adore you.

But look at the bright side. No one's dead! We can go to war again over something and see where the dice fall! It's the best kind of war ever! You can try again!

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;754687Yes, but 5e will be forgotten, too.

Fine. I'm really only concerned about the TRUTH we have learned from this war. Playing it First is better. In every way. I imagine you will see this wisdom in every edition from here on to the end of time. You see the terrible war we fought over it? It will be worth it.

Quote from: jeff37923;754690Thank you for proving my earlier point.

Bye-bye now!

what point is that?  That your title describes your every waking moment?

your posts remind me of my old high school buddy who is a severe alcoholic and every time he would call he would just spout nonsense and act like he's making perfect sense while everyone else just doesn't get it

Quote from: jeff37923;754681OK, that arguement I'll buy. It makes a Hell of a lot more sense than jibba's claim that kids today can't follow instructions and wouldn't now what dice were.

Actually you would be suprised to learn that most people have no idea what terms like "4d6" mean and throw away phrases like "generate 6 values using 4d6 drop lowest and assign them to the 6 core stats" whilst being entirely clear to game players may as well be written in greek for everyone else.

Which of course was the point I was making when I noted that a quick chargen summary in a sidebar in the starter book would be worthless as the people that would understand it wouldn't need it and the people that would need it wouldn't understand it.

But do carry on

Quote from: trechriron;754691I'm not crowing. I'm declaring victory.

'Nuff said.

Quote from: jibbajibba;754699Actually you would be suprised to learn that most people have no idea what terms like "4d6" mean and throw away phrases like "generate 6 values using 4d6 drop lowest and assign them to the 6 core stats" whilst being entirely clear to game players may as well be written in greek for everyone else.

Which of course was the point I was making when I noted that a quick chargen summary in a sidebar in the starter book would be worthless as the people that would understand it wouldn't need it and the people that would need it wouldn't understand it.

But do carry on

Welcome to the idiot que, line forms behind 5acrosanct.

Quote from: jeff37923;754710Welcome to the idiot que, line forms behind 5acrosanct.

protip: before insulting someone's intelligence, learn to spell.  It's "queue".

but I guess you're good for an irony laugh at any rate...

Wow, this is still going on? Jeff you have to understand you aren't the audience anymore then myself and like any experienced roleplayer have internalized the rules to a degree that you can't even realize let alone admit.

As already explained they are targeting this in multiple channels and platforms and the Starter is explicitly targeted to kids, and newbies and mothers shopping at Target et al.

Quote from: jibbajibba;754699Actually you would be suprised to learn that most people have no idea what terms like "4d6" mean

What's your point with this?

I mean, is the single sentence explanation of the "#d#" notation something that's seriously hard for new gamers to grasp?

Quote from: kythri;754723What's your point with this?

I mean, is the single sentence explanation of the "#d#" notation something that's seriously hard for new gamers to grasp?

Yes. You ever spout that gibberish (game speak) to me or wrote it in a sidebar when I first started or read the game I would have looked at you crosseyed and just said roll whatever the hell you're talking about for me up or just give me an extra character thingy. Let's just play already!!! (You got me interested already so don't bore me stupid).

Quote from: Marleycat;754719Wow, this is still going on? Jeff you have to understand you aren't the audience anymore then myself and like any experienced roleplayer have internalized the rules to a degree that you can't even realize let alone admit.

As already explained they are targeting this in multiple channels and platforms and the Starter is explicitly targeted to kids, and newbies and mothers shopping at Target et al.

If they are, they aren't doing a good job advertising. I haven't seen any ads on any kids channels (I see what my daughter watches on TV) and I haven't seen any ads in any comic books lately (D&D used to have tons of ads back in the day). Even if it is coming out in July, you need to get people excited ahead of time.