What really is the difference in a rules light game between a pregen with the numbers filed off and a PC created with character gen, besides random stats, which are easy enough to create, and stuff that have no rules attached to it like name background cool scars etc. The only other thing I can think of for some at least are spells but most low level spell choice is fairly limited anyways.
I get its the internet and people are gonna go hardline one stance or the other, right away but im curious about the whole thing. Starter Set nonsense aside as I could care less about armchair corporate managering:

Is everyone really getting this butt hurt over roll 3d6 in order, or is there some other mechanical aspect to basic dnd chargen im missing?

What makes playing Bob the Fighter in a rules light dnd any different than playing a Fighter? Besides stuff I can just makeup, like a name or background.

Quote from: CitrusMagic;753114What makes playing Bob the Fighter in a rules light dnd any different than playing a Fighter? Besides stuff I can just makeup, like a name or background.

Like a whole lot of stuff it comes down to personal taste, traditions, knowing what you like.

I too fail to see the need to express yourself via customized mechanical decisions in a 'Starter Set'.

It isn't meant for people to have the "full experience".  It's a gateway drug.

Quote from: Simlasa;753115Like a whole lot of stuff it comes down to personal taste, traditions, knowing what you like.

Im a little confused as to what you mean, although if you are saying what I think you are, I agree.

for instance my personal taste for DnD is B/X or LotFP chargen with a few houserules. therefore a pregen and a PC I would make, aren't that different mechanically.

However If i enjoyed say Pathfinder Chargen or something with more mechanical choices then a pregen and a Chargen PC would play differently.

Neither way is wrong its just preference. Is that what you meant?

Quote from: mcbobbo;753120I too fail to see the need to express yourself via customized mechanical decisions in a 'Starter Set'.

It isn't meant for people to have the "full experience".  It's a gateway drug.

For some, like myself, being able to create a character was one of the greatest appeals of RPGs. So that was my own gateway.

I liked D&D when I first found RPGs at age 12, but I fell in love with RPGs when I found Traveller a year later and suddenly had a toolbox I could use to create my own universe that was compatable with every other universe using the Traveller rules.

Quote from: jeff37923;753128For some, like myself, being able to create a character was one of the greatest appeals of RPGs. So that was my own gateway.

I liked D&D when I first found RPGs at age 12, but I fell in love with RPGs when I found Traveller a year later and suddenly had a toolbox I could use to create my own universe that was compatable with every other universe using the Traveller rules.

You can still create the person you want to play even when you don't decide his Con bonus.

Quote from: CitrusMagic;753114What makes playing Bob the Fighter in a rules light dnd any different than playing a Fighter? Besides stuff I can just makeup, like a name or background.

Unless there are charts for rolling up penis size in the basic set, it is not complete.

Quote from: Brad;753135Unless there are charts for rolling up penis size in the basic set, it is not complete.

wait there aren't?!

I've been using the wand/staff/rod chart wrong all this time then.

Quote from: mcbobbo;753134You can still create the person you want to play even when you don't decide his Con bonus.

Hmmm, I think that character creation and playing a character are different aspects. Yes, I can grab a pre-gen and play it however I want to, but I still have not created that pre-gen. Likewise, I can create any number of different characters and play them all in the same way regardless of what the character sheet says.

What I prefer is to have a character concept in mind which I want to play, then create a character that supports that character concept.

Now, to keep Sacrosanct and the other haters from having a stroke and screaming, "That's denner thinking!" an example of what I mean by character concept is having my PC be a teenage Bard who is entranced by all of the stories and poems of adventure and derring-do which is why he decided to become an adventurer, through playing in several adventures, the Bard would grow older and wiser by learning that those adventures he thought were romantic are actually bloody and painful in reality. The character would have been my take on the Hero's Journey and response to it.

It would be tough to do that level of depth with a pre-gen.

I think this debate about char gen rules ended this morning, when they announced the Basic set pdf release. I too was pissed when I heard the boxed set wouldn't have char gen rules and had a couple of reasons why I thought it was an asinine move. But they are clearly making good on all that, and then some, so there is no reason to gripe.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;753022Probably a variant on Tordek, Jozan, Mialee, Regdar, & Lidda.

I have to admit, seeing those familiar old faces would make me fairly giddy.

Quote from: Larsdangly;753140I think this debate about char gen rules ended this morning, when they announced the Basic set pdf release. I too was pissed when I heard the boxed set wouldn't have char gen rules and had a couple of reasons why I thought it was an asinine move. But they are clearly making good on all that, and then some, so there is no reason to gripe.

You must be new here.

Protip Jeff:  If you don't want people making an analogy between your statements and what a Denner says, then stop saying things Denners say:

"If you cannot create a character for yourself to role-play, but must use someone else's pre-gen, that kinda defeats the purpose of playing the game."

After all, I can only go off of the words you actually say.

Quote from: dragoner;752955I have to say that my desire to maybe download the chargen pdf and take a look at maybe playing a game have been quenched by the arguments here.

No kidding!
The game is not even out yet and we have frothing at the mouth fanatics ALREADY defending the holy writ that is Ye Blessed Starter!

Ye Blessed Starter! will uplift us from the decades of tyranny suffered under the confusing heel of diabolical Chargen Dennerites! No longer will innocent young minds be corrupted and twisted by trying to comprehend the Lovecraftian Horror of Dread Roll 3d6!!!!

Next up the removal of spells because you know that stuff is just too complex for fragile young minds.

Really.

Having chargen out of the starter is perfectly fine. It gets the job done that Mentzer wanted it to do wham bam.

Telling people that liking chargen or that chargen itself is wrong thinking and stunts gameplay is just way the hell off in the depths of fruitcake land.

Someone likes a different style of gameplay? Well boo hoo hoo! Kill yourself and get it over with because that is the baser fact of playing games and if you cant accept that then its all over for you kiddo.

We have the starter which hopefully at least allows you to name the characters and gets new players right in and hopefully interested enough to step up to the real game thereafter. We have the Basic which covers quite a bit and allows the things not in the starter.

Win win situation. With a few potential speedbumps no doubt about that.

Quote from: jeff37923;753139What I prefer is to have a character concept in mind which I want to play, then create a character that supports that character concept.

Now, to keep Sacrosanct and the other haters from having a stroke and screaming, "That's denner thinking!" an example of what I mean by character concept is having my PC be a teenage Bard who is entranced by all of the stories and poems of adventure and derring-do which is why he decided to become an adventurer, through playing in several adventures, the Bard would grow older and wiser by learning that those adventures he thought were romantic are actually bloody and painful in reality. The character would have been my take on the Hero's Journey and response to it.

It would be tough to do that level of depth with a pre-gen.

I get what you're saying and oft times thats the way I like to make my characters as well.
I think the misunderstanding between what I'm saying and the people who are saying pregens won't allow what they like is this:

 assuming the basic 5e is just that, basic, there will be no mechanics to dictate how your character acts, or his personality. ie no feats or qualities or flaws. This is also how B/X or similar level DnD characters work.

Also excepting spells each class in the basic game only has one path mechanically set before it. everyone gets the same powers and upgrades or there just aren't any. Every fighter will work the same game rules wise at character generation, the only differences are the things each player makes up, like the a fore said background. Through play things might change but mechanically a basic fighter is like every other basic fighter when they start.

Therefore if you strip off all the background of a pregen in a basic dnd you are left with just the class, which is the same as every other PC of its class mechanically. Its kind of a round about way of Chargen and it only works in Basic DnD (which presumably 5e basic is) but it ends up with the same results at the end of the day, and is part of the reason I like simple rule sets because there are not that many rules messing up the concept of the character.

Its also I suppose moot point now since the chargen will be available and for free but I wanted to try and express my thoughts in a calm clear fashion so as not to be viewed as in one camp or the other. These days, as long as I get a chance to play anything I'm happy