Why Character Generation is not an optional add-on for a RPG Starter Set

jeff37923 · May 27, 2014, 02:47:15 PM

Quote from: Sacrosanct;753062Really? So you didn't say this:

I knew you were reading my posts and were just too embarrassed to respond.

dragoner · May 27, 2014, 02:53:37 PM

Quote from: Simlasa;753083Has anyone really been talking bad about pre-gens? I haven't seen it. The issue was lack of chargen... which pre-gens don't entirely make up for. I'm fine with playing pre-gens, once in a while... but they weren't part of my intro to RPGs... they seem like a compromise, a lesser thing.

Yes and no, half the discussion has been hyperbole like: "I don't support throwing a kitten in a chipper-shredder, and anyone who doesn't blow me, is throwing a kitten in the chipper-shredder!" Which is classic obfuscation, imo; chargen has been there, afaik, just not in the box.

estar · May 27, 2014, 02:54:59 PM

It becoming evident what going is misstep in marketing by Wizards. Does anybody seriously have a problem if it was explained like the following.

QuoteCome July you will be able to download a free PDF that includes all the character generation rules for the classic four classes from levels 1 to 20 and the classic three races. In addition for $20 you will be able to purchase a The D&D Dungeon Master Starter Kit that contains adventure material, aides, and pre-gens to allow a group of players to quickly get started with D&D 5e.

Along with this we are releasing Tyranny of Dragons adventure that in addition to the adventure will include all the rules you will need to play that not in the Basic D&D PDF. Finally the Player Handbook with the complete of character creation rules will be released at Gen Con and to stores in August.

Depending on budget and demand we may take advantage of advances in printing technology to offer a printed version of the BASIC D&D rules.

Bobloblah · May 27, 2014, 02:56:56 PM

Well, I mean, when you put it like that...

Simlasa · May 27, 2014, 02:58:53 PM

Quote from: estar;753090It becoming evident what going is misstep in marketing by Wizards. Does anybody seriously have a problem if it was explained like the following.

Yup, that would have lowered the turmoil by a whole lot.
Now some will come along and say, 'But that's exactly what they've been saying all along!'...

Marleycat · May 27, 2014, 02:59:27 PM

Quote from: estar;753090It becoming evident what going is misstep in marketing by Wizards. Does anybody seriously have a problem if it was explained like the following.

They should hire you immediately.

jeff37923 · May 27, 2014, 02:59:38 PM

Quote from: Simlasa;753083Has anyone really been talking bad about pre-gens? I haven't seen it. The issue was lack of chargen... which pre-gens don't entirely make up for. I'm fine with playing pre-gens, once in a while... but they weren't part of my intro to RPGs... they seem like a compromise, a lesser thing.

Quote from: dragoner;753089Yes and no, half the discussion has been hyperbole like: "I don't support throwing a kitten in a chipper-shredder, and anyone who doesn't blow me, is throwing a kitten in the chipper-shredder!" Which is classic obfuscation, imo; chargen has been there, afaik, just not in the box.

Got it in one.

Simlasa · May 27, 2014, 03:05:04 PM

Quote from: dragoner;753089Yes and no, half the discussion has been hyperbole like: "I don't support throwing a kitten in a chipper-shredder, and anyone who doesn't blow me, is throwing a kitten in the chipper-shredder!" Which is classic obfuscation, imo; chargen has been there, afaik, just not in the box.

That's been flying out of both sides of the argument. But as usual, when 'my side' is doing it I can see it as intentional comedy... when the other side does it I read it as 'Holy cow that guy is a dick!'

dragoner · May 27, 2014, 03:11:37 PM

Quote from: Simlasa;753097That's been flying out of both sides of the argument. But as usual, when 'my side' is doing it I can see it as intentional comedy... when the other side does it I read it as 'Holy cow that guy is a dick!'

I'm either too old to care or something, I don't really have a side other than, it seems nice they actually did keep it out of the box and as a pdf, because if it was in the box, wouldn't you have to pay for it? Free kind of gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling ... as well as saying that maybe I'll take a look at it. But I might play a pre-gen too, I'm crazy like that.

dragoner · May 27, 2014, 03:14:56 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;753095Got it in one.

Yup.

Simlasa · May 27, 2014, 03:17:16 PM

Quote from: dragoner;753098I'm either too old to care or something, I don't really have a side other than, it seems nice they actually did keep it out of the box and as a pdf, because if it was in the box, wouldn't you have to pay for it?

I'd assume... and I would have. It's an aesthetic thing for me, partly... wanting all of it together as a thing. Not a 'hybrid' or nicely made books and a pile of printouts. I'm not 'afraid' of PDFs... but actual hardcopies retain certain strengths.

jeff37923 · May 27, 2014, 03:23:07 PM

I think that there is a significant advantage to having chargen in the primary book. Besides the advantages for Players, it also gives the GM some advantages. How can you create NPCs that integrate fully with the rules without having chargen? Any NPCs you create without chargen rules are very likely going to be slightly off from what is created with the chargen rules available.

dragoner · May 27, 2014, 03:23:57 PM

Quote from: Simlasa;753101I'd assume... and I would have. It's an aesthetic thing for me, partly... wanting all of it together as a thing. Not a 'hybrid' or nicely made books and a pile of printouts. I'm not 'afraid' of PDFs... but actual hardcopies retain certain strengths.

How much of it all are you going to buy for completeness's sake? Because that is what I see when I read the word "aesthetic" often enough. Some people only GM as well, so it has an effect there, esp for making NPC's, which for that I do understand, from the GM's viewpoint.

dragoner · May 27, 2014, 03:29:02 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;753106I think that there is a significant advantage to having chargen in the primary book. Besides the advantages for Players, it also gives the GM some advantages. How can you create NPCs that integrate fully with the rules without having chargen? Any NPCs you create without chargen rules are very likely going to be slightly off from what is created with the chargen rules available.

Great minds think alike. I agree with the NPC issue. It might seem like shaving a dime to not include in print what they are giving away free; but big companies, economies of scale; accountants often figure to the hundredth of a cent, and business being business, they want their pound of flesh from any project.

Simlasa · May 27, 2014, 03:37:06 PM

Quote from: dragoner;753107How much of it all are you going to buy for completeness's sake? Because that is what I see when I read the word "aesthetic" often enough.

Like I've said. I'm not that much of a D&D guy. So if this Basic thing is what it seems to want me to think it is... that's about it... and some modules if they appeal to me.
There's no way am I going to be a 'completist' about this... in so far as I want to have everything WOTC puts out for it. That shit is for comic books and gaming miniatures.