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Why Character Generation is not an optional add-on for a RPG Starter Set

Started by Windjammer, May 26, 2014, 10:37:21 AM

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Benoist

#240
May 27, 2014, 02:05:31 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;753039So that's a "no" then.  You refuse to answer that simple question.  Insulting me like this doesn't change the fact that you refuse to do so.  Thus my comment about your lack of integrity and/or courage, because I can't for the life of me figure out what other reason you'd have for refusing to answer that simple question.
That's settled then. You still don't want to be wrong, and are still an asshole about it.

OK. Going back to work now.

kythri

#241
May 27, 2014, 02:07:49 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;753001Not sure why he have this big disconnect between "OMFG! No chargen rules in the starter set means the game fucking sucks and you miss the whole point!" and "The chargen rules are free online so shut up and quit whining!"

"the game" != "this one specific product"

Sacrosanct

#242
May 27, 2014, 02:09:43 PM
Quote from: Benoist;753040That's settled then. You still don't want to be wrong, and are still an asshole about it.

OK. Going back to work now.

:boohoo:

For fuck's sake Benoist, I'm not the one who made a claim to be wrong about.  Now you're just spouting nonsense and trying to be a victim to boot?

You're the one who made the claim about 5e defenders, not me.  Either man up and own it and actually prove it, or acknowledge you were wrong and 5e defenders aren't the only ones who have resorted to rediculous hyperbole.  Answering that question I posted would solve this once and for all.

The fact that you refuse speaks volumes.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Marleycat

#243
May 27, 2014, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;753038From the get go, I've always said the choice isn't an obvious one.  During the Denner invasion here, and normal posters at TBP, you had a lot of people argue that a stat bump was always best, but that's because they couldn't think outside of the box.  Even on the earlier versions of the classes, there were several combinations that were either mathmatically more effective (assassin rogue with alertness feat), or might not have seemed more effective from a DPS perspective, but in actual game play allowed you to do a lot (the arcane archer feat for example)

The problem with people who said stat bumps always were better only looked at the game from a DPS POV, rather than an actual play POV.

I get the feeling Denners never actually play any game but just make up white room scenerios. And I do remember you saying that but it never came together for me until the final playtest packet.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

estar

#244
May 27, 2014, 02:10:55 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;752988Being able to create your own character is an important part of the game, but certainly not the entire point of it.  Otherwise, by that extention, you could do nothing but do char gen (no adventuring, nothing else) and say you've played the entire point of the game.


QuoteThe point of RPGs is to play an imagined character in another place experiencing various situation.

Three parts to my statement. All three need to be present. Benoist is not arguing otherwise and neither am I.

Bobloblah

#245
May 27, 2014, 02:13:25 PM
Quote from: estar;753046Three parts to my statement. All three need to be present. Benoist is not arguing otherwise and neither am I.
Sorry if I misinterpreted you earlier.
Best,
Bobloblah

Asking questions about the fictional game space and receiving feedback that directly guides the flow of play IS the game. - Exploderwizard

Sacrosanct

#246
May 27, 2014, 02:15:48 PM
Quote from: estar;753046Three parts to my statement. All three need to be present. Benoist is not arguing otherwise and neither am I.

I apologize for being unclear.  My response was mainly referring back to Jeff's statement that playing with a pregen misses the entire point of the game.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

jeff37923

#247
May 27, 2014, 02:19:28 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;753044For fuck's sake Benoist, I'm not the one who made a claim to be wrong about.  

Quote from: Sacrosanct;752691*Edit*  Because your post seems to strongly imply that the purpose of the game is to create your own characters.  You know do does think char gen is the purpose of the game?  Denners.  Is that the side you want to align with?

Case closed.
"Meh."

jeff37923

#248
May 27, 2014, 02:21:32 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;753053I apologize for being unclear.  My response was mainly referring back to Jeff's statement that playing with a pregen misses the entire point of the game.

And you were wrong about this too.
"Meh."

Sacrosanct

#249
May 27, 2014, 02:27:38 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;753057And you were wrong about this too.

Really?  So you didn't say this:

Quote from: jeff37923;752664You know, these are role-playing games. If you cannot create a character for yourself to role-play, but must use someone else's pre-gen, that kinda defeats the purpose of playing the game.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Marleycat

#250
May 27, 2014, 02:30:06 PM
C'mon guys! It's done and finished. The starter set has no character generation it's going to be online like or hate it that is the deal.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

Warthur

#251
May 27, 2014, 02:32:14 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;753038The problem with people who said stat bumps always were better only looked at the game from a DPS POV, rather than an actual play POV.
100% this. Of course, sometimes in actual play there'll be situations where DPS is king, but if a PC has the tricks and wit to allow the party to avoid an attrition-based fight then you don't need to bring out the DPS gun at alll.
I am no longer posting here or reading this forum because Pundit has regularly claimed credit for keeping this community active. I am sick of his bullshit for reasons I explain here and I don\'t want to contribute to anything he considers to be a personal success on his part.

I recommend The RPG Pub as a friendly place where RPGs can be discussed and where the guiding principles of moderation are "be kind to each other" and "no politics". It\'s pretty chill so far.

Sacrosanct

#252
May 27, 2014, 02:37:00 PM
Quote from: Warthur;753070100% this. Of course, sometimes in actual play there'll be situations where DPS is king, but if a PC has the tricks and wit to allow the party to avoid an attrition-based fight then you don't need to bring out the DPS gun at alll.

Exactly.  One of the things that always bothered me about those types of discussions.  90% of my game play did not happen in an arena with no environmental influences.  Judging a game based only on arena-style combat scenarios does teh game a huge disservice.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

dragoner

#253
May 27, 2014, 02:38:07 PM
I don't see what the big deal is myself, I grew up with pre-gens, Every D&D module and Traveller adventure had them. They were good to glean info on what type of character was deemed useful by the designer, and handy in that you could use them as automatic NPC's, PC's for drop-in players, or replacement characters for when your character was killed.

The best part of chargen, creating some absurdist backstory paragraph, was still there. You could move on without missing a beat.
The most beautiful peonies I ever saw ... were grown in almost pure cat excrement.
-Vonnegut

Simlasa

#254
May 27, 2014, 02:45:32 PM
Quote from: dragoner;753078I don't see what the big deal is myself, I grew up with pre-gens, Every D&D module and Traveller adventure had them.
Has anyone really been talking bad about pre-gens? I haven't seen it. The issue was lack of chargen... which pre-gens don't entirely make up for. I'm fine with playing pre-gens, once in a while... but they weren't part of my intro to RPGs... they seem like a compromise, a lesser thing.
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