Quote from: Simlasa;752839Yeah... the Basic version looks like the way to go. Screw the 'Starter Set'.

$12.66?  I spend more than that on pdfs I know I'm never gonna run but want to read what options and ideas are in there.  Damn right I ordered it.

Quote from: CRKrueger;752832Yeah the bullshit is getting pretty thick.  You got Mistwell in white knight mode, you got Marley doing her passive-aggressive poke Ben thing, you got the usual anti-grog suspects representin' and you got the budding 5anatic 5acrosanct jumping in 'cause he gets to argue with Jeff over something again.

We know there's a whole lot of tangential dishonest bullshit behind people's arguing when Windjammer and Ben are in 100% agreement and in this case Skywalker and I are in 100% agreement.

 Anyone who disagrees with that statement has lost their reason due to personality bullshit and needs to step off the internet for a while because they're making themselves look like a raving lunatic.  That statement is an axiom.

Now if you want debate whether or not by having the chargen rules removed from the Starter Set box as an adjunct pdf, they are truly missing from the Starter experience, go ahead, but that's a matter of opinion anyway.

Now that other shoe has dropped, we finally know what Pundit was talking about.  We can move on from the Starter Set.

Basic D&D going from 1-20th and continually updated with new content from releases will be free on WotC site, and that the PHB, DMG, and MM will be optional to Basic D&D.

Passive-Aggressive? I need to really get mean I guess. Oh yeah, what'd you talkin' about Willis?

Quote from: CRKrueger;752841The Microlite and OD&D people? Done (with the hope they will buy the 3 main books for options, but not counting on it if they don't).

Yeah, that's got me covered. I'm happy to give it a try.

Quote from: CRKrueger;752842$12.66?  I spend more than that on pdfs I know I'm never gonna run but want to read what options and ideas are in there.  Damn right I ordered it.

It's not the money... my main issue with the 'starter' was aesthetic and ideological... I've got none of that with Basic... yet.

Quote from: CRKrueger;752832and you got the budding 5anatic 5acrosanct jumping in 'cause he gets to argue with Jeff over something again.

Yeah, I wonder about his attraction to me. It seems unhealthy.

Quote from: Marleycat;752824Except both of you are wrong...we all are on the internet? What? Shut the fuck up both of you.

No. I'll just download the Basic Set and see if it is worth the effort.

Quote from: Marleycat;752824And anytime you want to build me a fair character Jeff you're on.

Though if it's a dwarven fighter it could get bloody.

Deal.

Just let me know of any restrictions due to game and setting.

Quote from: Marleycat;752804Ok, I'll bite. Explain please.

Flashy entry into the lion's den, filled with motivation, panache, family history, higher education, and all kinds of character and the first time he enters battle, full of promise and glory ...

Quote from: Saplatt;752850Flashy entry into the lion's den, filled with motivation, panache, family history, higher education, and all kinds of character and the first time he enters battle, full of promise and glory ...

You mean bullshit.

Quote from: jeff37923;752848No. I'll just download the Basic Set and see if it is worth the effort.






Deal.

Just let me know of any restrictions due to game and setting.

Really wish I could be either in a game with you or something your running either way I trust you. How about this? When I find a 5e game you create the pregen?

Quote from: Marleycat;752852You mean bullshit.

It's a Game of Thones/Song of Ice and Fire reference.  And I'd be quite happy indeed if my character had an Oberyn-like career...

Great post Windjammer!

Quote from: The Butcher;752752There is no way in hell you can persuade anyone that this is a selling point.

Of course you can! Just find a blogger and promise to put his name in the credits...

Quote from: Benoist;752763This thread keeps on giving.

If the tears wept in these 5e threads were alcoholic, my liver would have given out days ago.

Quote from: Skywalker;752766When JRR Tolkien ran the Starter Set for the Hobbit for 14 players, it had only 4 pregens - Gandalf, Bilbo, Thorin and Dwaliloifur. He made do.

AWESOME!!!

Quote from: Iosue;752856It's a Game of Thones/Song of Ice and Fire reference.  And I'd be quite happy indeed if my character had an Oberyn-like career...

Sorry I don't like his writing so never read past book 1. And never watched the show so completely misunderstood. Sorry.

Quote from: Simlasa;752796It seems so easy to put the chargen in the box that the only reasons (that I can believe) not to are all skeezy marketing wank to push some sort of guided experience.

Quote from: jeff37923;752820So if WotC didn't think that the Starter Set was crippleware without chargen, then why create the http://wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20140527]Basic Set?[/URL]

If we move beyond questions of ideology, the to me most plausible explanation is that (1) the character generation rules were not ready at the time the Starter Set went off to the printers and (2) that WotC wanted to avoid repeating their fumble with 4e Essentials where players could not progress from the Starter Box to the actual ruleset without remaking their characters. I also think these are sane reasons to avoid char-gen in the Starter Box, but if true, these reasons also tell us that the release and consolidation of the 5e ruleset is as fragile as it was for 4e. See also this statement:

QuoteWhy the staggered release [of the 3 corebooks]? Mike Mearls says "PH/MM/DMG releases were split because stacking them causes big quality issues, a la the 4e errata. Too much work at once."

This tells us that they were unable to co-release the big 3, not that they simply chose not to for ideological or other reasons. So, I would not be surprised if the extra month they could spend before the PHB was sent off to the printers could be used to make sure that the 'Basic' PDF is at least properly aligned with the printed PHB.

(Another indication that the ruleset is - or until very recently, was - very much 'in the air' is the statement by Wolfgang Baur from KoboldPress who's still working on the Next adventure hardcovers: while Baur&co were working on the adventure, the ruleset was constantly changing. Again, seems to indicate prevalent 'last minute changes' before products were sent to the printers. I sincerely hope the 5e books won't be as errata heavy as the 4e ones, but these last minute alterations do not bode well.)

I applaud them for doing basic D&D as a free PDF. At the same time, i still like having my rules in print form at the table, so i do think it ought to be released in print as well for those interested in running purely basic D&D. For the starter set, I still think they ought to have included character creation (purely for the convenience factor of having everything there at your fingertips in the box). But it isn't the end of the world. My only concern, and for me it is a big one, is whether content will also be shifted out of the PHB/DMG. I use plenty of online resources and pdfs, but when I run a game, i still like to go by the hard copy book and do not like having to shift to the computer. So i do hope all the stuff i need to run the game is in the books themselves. Still putting out a complete game for free on the net is a good idea, it just isn't so good that they can also skimp on the book content.

Quote from: Benoist;752784When you have to actually argue with people that the ability to create your own characters however you imagine them in your head is a primary feature of tabletop role playing games, and not an obstacle to their appreciation out of the box, is when you know something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

It's a defining feature of any sort of game where you're expected to stick with the same character for about 40+ hours of play, and identify with them in some way (Rather than just watching their story progress, like a Final Fantasy game; but even they used to let you rename your characters).

That this "basic" book exists, means there is a quality starting-point product (It would be a damn shame if it's not available at least as PoD-able files), even if it is available in the wrong place (Online, as opposed to in stores). But that product is NOT the box. That box is still rubbish.

Quote from: Benoist;752784When you have to actually argue with people that the ability to create your own characters however you imagine them in your head is a primary feature of tabletop role playing games, and not an obstacle to their appreciation out of the box, is when you know something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

God help me, but I actually agree with this.