Quote from: Mistwell;75275599% of Tabletop Role Playing game sessions of Dungeons and Dragons, of any edition, do not involve creating a character.

You only create a character once, or if there is a lot of death a few times, during an entire campaign.  Most of the time, you're sitting down and just playing.

Not sure what you are referring to, certainly not D&D. Have chargen for every game, if not the players, then it's me doing up new NPCs'. Players die frequently in my games.

Plus with all the drop-ins and drop-outs There's usually someone tumbling some dice for a new character right when we begin a session, and many sessions have an out-of-action player rolling up a new character, or character(s) as well.

Quote from: Mistwell;752755LOL wow way to not comprehend.  I was not referring to "all games in the universe of games".  I was referring to TTRPGs, specifically D&D.

99% of Tabletop Role Playing game sessions of Dungeons and Dragons, of any edition, do not involve creating a character.

You only create a character once, or if there is a lot of death a few times, during an entire campaign.  Most of the time, you're sitting down and just playing.

So if the process of character creation is THE POINT of the game, then why is it almost zero sessions actually experience that thing?

It's a facile, vacuous point.  Grab a character and play.  You want to dicker around with character creation, go online and get the PDF.  But the point of the game is not that process, it's playing the fucking game.



No, it's not.  I don't even remember most chargens.  It's usually more individual and less social in nature, it usually involves intricate choices being made mostly in a vacuum which turn out to be not so important later, and it's often a lot of math and checking things to make sure things were done right.  It's prep for the game, not the game itself.  It's not an important aspect of the game.  It's not role playing, it's not social, it's not solving riddles or getting through a social situation or being clever or any of the important aspects of this game.  When I think role playing game, I do not think calculating my fucking armor class up or character height and weight while everyone else around me is (fairly quietly usually) doing the same.  That's not a strength of RPGs, it's not what makes RPGs important, it's none of the important elements of the game.

Playing your alter-ego is the point of the game.

Otherwise your better off with a board game where your piece is already made for you. Let me play Elf in HeroQuest and we'll have fun for a night. Let me play Quinton Quickblade my Elven Fighter/Thief that is strong and quick on his feet but gullible and a loner and we'll have fun for years.

This thread keeps on giving.

There are five pre-gens in the box? What if you have six players? Do you tell them to draw straws?

Quote from: Endless Flight;752764There are five pre-gens in the box? What if you have six players?

When JRR Tolkien ran the Starter Set for the Hobbit for 14 players, it had only 4 pregens - Gandalf, Bilbo, Thorin and Dwaliloifur. He made do.

Quote from: Benoist;752763This thread keeps on giving.

Yep you're still here. How about you go on another senseless rant? It's always good for a laugh in my opinion. And given the topic it's pretty appropriate so hit me.

Quote from: dragoner;752754:idunno: I thought it was a cub scout term myself.

Nah, it's a forum by and for autists and damaged people that play games...best avoided nowadays except for the guilty pleasure of amusement, although in times past (before the meds stop working, is the best theory), there were some constructive things said there.

Anyway, I totally concede Chargen should be in the starter, but I'm quite OK with it not being there.

I ran a "hobby shop" PF campaign. Nothing serious, just whoever showed up, we played. Every time I showed up, there was 1 to 6 players wanting to learn how to play, so I had to blow 10 minutes to an hour creating a character...and then 3+ hours of having fun playing the game.

I got real good at rolling up characters fast, but everyone else standing around didn't exactly have fun. And that's the thing about a starter, it should be really easy to start. In a hobby shop setting, not having to deal with Chargen will *really* help, assuming I try DnDNext.

I sure hope they have a dozen or so pregens in the box, because if I have two characters at the table that are *exactly* the same, then I'll wander on over to the "no chargen sucks" side of the field.

Quote from: Mistwell;752755You only create a character once, or if there is a lot of death a few times, during an entire campaign.  Most of the time, you're sitting down and just playing.

Though you don't create a PC every session, you do play a character of your own creation for nearly 100% of the time. By removing the ability to create a PC, you remove this almost ever present (and arguably distinctive) aspect of the game.

Quote from: GameDaddy;752761

Not sure what you are referring to, certainly not D&D. Have chargen for every game, if not the players, then it's me doing up new NPCs'. Players die frequently in my games.

I am obviously not talking about NPCs, because those are not PCs, by definition, and we're taking about PCs.  Now if you count NPCs, then guess what - the Starter set DOES have rules to make those I believe.

Do all your players die every session? No? Then I guess any session there isn't a TPK, your players are missing the entire point of the game according to Jeff.

QuotePlus with all the drop-ins and drop-outs There's usually someone tumbling some dice for a new character right when we begin a session, and many sessions have an out-of-action player rolling up a new character, or character(s) as well.

I often come to a session and say "Who is out, I will play that character".  Am I missing the entire point of the game because I didn't chargen that character?

I thought the entire point of the game was to role play, not to make a special snowflake all my own.

Quote from: Endless Flight;752764There are five pre-gens in the box? What if you have six players? Do you tell them to draw straws?

Banish him fool! Or just MAYBE go online like any normal human to get more information? Whacky right? Or call that weird uncle or parent that gave you the game if you didn't buy it yourself after reading the back of the box?

Or horror of horrors, write down simple character generation on a note included in said present?

Quote from: Doom;752769I sure hope they have a dozen or so pregens in the box, because if I have two characters at the table that are *exactly* the same, then I'll wander on over to the "no chargen sucks" side of the field.

There's only five in the box.  I hope your players have good imaginations.

Quote from: Skywalker;752770Though you don't create a PC every session, you do play a character of your own creation for nearly 100% of the time. By removing the ability to create a PC, you remove this almost ever present (and arguably distinctive) aspect of the game.

Yeah, bullshit.  The distinctive aspect of the game IS ROLE PLAYING.  It's right there in the fucking name of the activity.  

Just because I didn't role those stats and choose which race to go with which class, but instead grabbed a pregen, I am no longer experiencing the distinctive ever present portion of the game? Even though I am the one naming them, I am the one playing them and choosing the personality for the character, even though I am the one levelling them and adventuring with them, all of that is not distinctive of RPGS but it was instead choosing which ability score to put the 15 in that's distinctive?

So much bullshit.

Quote from: Marleycat;752773Banish him fool! Or just MAYBE go online like any normal human to get more information? Whacky right?

So the DM will have to spend about 15 minutes creating a character for the sixth player while the others twiddle their thumbs? Why not just put the rules in the box and they could all make their own at the same time?

Quote from: Endless Flight;752764There are five pre-gens in the box? What if you have six players? Do you tell them to draw straws?

Photocopier?

Download the pre-gens from WOTC and print to your heart's-content?

Tell the other advanced kid in the group to d/l the pdf and make a character while the rest sit with their thumbs up their asses wondering why Johnny Smartly gets to make a character instead of having it made for him?

txt wiz spprt n ? wat do now

Quote from: Mistwell;752772I often come to a session and say "Who is out, I will play that character".  Am I missing the entire point of the game because I didn't chargen that character?

No. You would have to admit that that approach in RPGs (using pregens) is not representative of how the vast majority of RPGs are run.

And really? Creating a PC is creating a special snowflake now? :rolleyes: