Sounds like you want Drive-By Godzilla to spice up your world.

You can have a big force of nature smash somewhere in the world and then filter rumors from survivors. Give a few simple parameters on when and where Godzilla appears, hopefully rarely, and let that program run in the background, fostering more rumors. Then let players decide whether they want to engage that info.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;749990Well, my main gripe with this faction based politics is that nothing really changes. The powers that be change, but fundamentally nothing "big" ever happens. You get a story or plot or myth arc or whatever you might call it. Regimes change and regime change again to their previous situation. In the end it's all just "puss in the corner" to me. I don't find it that interesting.

It should.  If not, it's lame.  If you have somebody's plot going on, then whether it succeeds or is thwarted, there should be significant, noticeable change in the session.  Something's there, or it's not.  Factions rise and fall, or get swallowed up.  New factions rise from the ashes.

In the scenario I wrote above, let's say that the hippie pagan people lose out - the plot gets found, and everyone gangs up on them for being douches.  Their faction should get seriously *pummeled* as a result.  The remaining members go into hiding.  Maybe a new faction rises to take their place, but in a very different way.  I don't know.  But when that scenario resolves, the status quo should not be maintained.

Quote from: Mr. Kent;750008Hmm - you don't want the same old politics and would like a more epic-scope set-up in the background - maybe you could combine the faction intrigue with an epic event?

Have one local faction totally in ruins at the outset--scattered members, their havens desecrated. Members in hiding, or fleeing to other factions. Maybe their destruction could be publicly blamed on VII or Belial's Blood, or whichever "outside antagonist" faction you choose. However, PCs may catch wind of rumors that some other group had a hand in things. Perhaps they were attacked from within--a rogue separatist sect?

This way, you have the political angle, but its not just status quo--something major happened, and that faction won't just bounce back. Everyone else will have to deal with the fallout, and that could set up some more conflict.

Yep, the bigger picture is gone. In the old mage for example you had politics between the different Traditions, but there was also the was between the Traditions and the Technocracy.

Quote from: Opaopajr;750024Sounds like you want Drive-By Godzilla to spice up your world.

You can have a big force of nature smash somewhere in the world and then filter rumors from survivors. Give a few simple parameters on when and where Godzilla appears, hopefully rarely, and let that program run in the background, fostering more rumors. Then let players decide whether they want to engage that info.

Ha, Drive- By Godzilla. Yeah, it could be the big bad. It could also be a force of nature like the Hellfrost in ehh .. Hellfrost or the Siphoning in Lands of Fire. Or the fading of the suns in ehh .. Fading Suns. Any periode with the Age of ... or the War of ... is also a good thing imo.

Quote from: robiswrong;750039It should.  If not, it's lame.  If you have somebody's plot going on, then whether it succeeds or is thwarted, there should be significant, noticeable change in the session.  Something's there, or it's not.  Factions rise and fall, or get swallowed up.  New factions rise from the ashes.

In the scenario I wrote above, let's say that the hippie pagan people lose out - the plot gets found, and everyone gangs up on them for being douches.  Their faction should get seriously *pummeled* as a result.  The remaining members go into hiding.  Maybe a new faction rises to take their place, but in a very different way.  I don't know.  But when that scenario resolves, the status quo should not be maintained.

You picked up on that hippie vibe of the frist core book out of 2004. They actually are more insert your old religion in here. They could be Aztec in Mexico, Celtic in Ireland and Hindu in India. Umbrella splat. In the new book they are more linked to Ireland and Scotland.

Anyway I get what you mean. To me it doesn't really matter who is in control. It's just like our political system. We have a system with multiple political parties who form alliances of two or three different parties. That switches around every four years. Sometimes the christian democrats side with the social democrats sometimes with the conservative liberals. Sometimes the conservative liberals side with the social democrats. Sometimes they need an extra party like the greens or the social liberals. The more things change to more things stay the same.

If I would be playing Fading Suns, I would probably ignore all the splats and their politics. Just not interested. I would run a game where the players are traders or smugglers. Sandboxing that stuff. And eventually let them get mixed up in something bigger like the Symbiot War or something like that. Letting them have multiple smuggle missions which together form a Symbiot myth arc.

In short. There is a big space setting. Ok, I could play that, but I am not particularly interested. Now there is a big space setting where people are fighting a race of shapeshifters right now as we speak. Ok, I am game. I have to play it.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;750059Anyway I get what you mean. To me it doesn't really matter who is in control. It's just like our political system.

Then *make it matter*.  If you don't make it matter who's in control, then there's no stakes up around that, no tension, and no sense of urgency.

Have the ruling faction engage in an extreme version of their ideology.  Make the Invictus go all "papers, please".  Have the Lancea initiate an ideological purge of vampires and mortals alike.

Quote from: robiswrong;750475Then *make it matter*.  If you don't make it matter who's in control, then there's no stakes up around that, no tension, and no sense of urgency.

Have the ruling faction engage in an extreme version of their ideology.  Make the Invictus go all "papers, please".  Have the Lancea initiate an ideological purge of vampires and mortals alike.

Good idea. It matters more this way.

But I was more looking for a world event. Something that directly or indirectly influences the world. The curse of the three sea hags makes 50 Fanthoms much more interesting than a run of the mill pirate setting. There has to be something going on in the world besides just a power struggle in a city. I could play it, but I don't find it that interesting.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;750629Good idea. It matters more this way.

But I was more looking for a world event. Something that directly or indirectly influences the world. The curse of the three sea hags makes 50 Fanthoms much more interesting than a run of the mill pirate setting. There has to be something going on in the world besides just a power struggle in a city. I could play it, but I don't find it that interesting.

Sure.  But even then, I'd argue it's best to start with the impact on the world that the characters care about.

"The Dragon Lord is rising" is fine and dandy.  But in and of itself, it's kind of pointless.  "... and he will bathe your home in flame" puts a little more pressure on the situation.

Quote from: robiswrong;750663Sure.  But even then, I'd argue it's best to start with the impact on the world that the characters care about.

"The Dragon Lord is rising" is fine and dandy.  But in and of itself, it's kind of pointless.  "... and he will bathe your home in flame" puts a little more pressure on the situation.

Well, I try to give an example. You could sandbox a trader in an sf universe. I find it more interesting if that universe is in war. A war with two factions for example. Your pc's could choose sides and be directly involved. Even if they don't they might be indirectly confronted with that war. They might end up in a battlefield, they might discover a ruined city or they might be trading food or medicine, because that got scarce.

If vampire would have a plot of a vampiric plague that creates a different kind of vampires who are competing with the damned or VII starts showing up 300 years ago and cities start going of the grid every few decades or a blood God is summoned who controls Eastern Europe now I would find it more interesting than what it is now. If you are a nerd like me, you have to get excited about stuff like this.

Players live in that world and will face the changing circumstances wether they like it or not. Ok, I just lost my train of thought. Oh got it again. Something has to be going on already when my players enter the setting. I liked Masquerade not because of it's plot dictating what would happen, but because of it's premise. There is already a two front war going on and there are increasing rumors about impending doom.  That gave that setting a feeling of being in motion and increased immersion for me.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;750689Well, I try to give an example. You could sandbox a trader in an sf universe. I find it more interesting if that universe is in war. A war with two factions for example. Your pc's could choose sides and be directly involved. Even if they don't they might be indirectly confronted with that war. They might end up in a battlefield, they might discover a ruined city or they might be trading food or medicine, because that got scarce.

Right, and that's a good way of tying it back to the characters, and what impacts them.  "There's a war going on."  If it never impacts them, the players won't care.

But a war could mean lots of things - certain areas of space may be dangerous now.  The results of war could increase demand for particular supply types in certain areas.  An area being taken over could result in vastly different levels of enforcement which could impact the players, one way or the other.  As you said, a ruined city could exist... but even then, how does that impact characters?  At the very least, there's probably a good amount of salvage there!

Quote from: robiswrong;750733Right, and that's a good way of tying it back to the characters, and what impacts them.  "There's a war going on."  If it never impacts them, the players won't care.

But a war could mean lots of things - certain areas of space may be dangerous now.  The results of war could increase demand for particular supply types in certain areas.  An area being taken over could result in vastly different levels of enforcement which could impact the players, one way or the other.  As you said, a ruined city could exist... but even then, how does that impact characters?  At the very least, there's probably a good amount of salvage there!

Of course it will always need some work to make it effect the players. But at least there is a starting point in the setting to make it have some impact. In the new wod there isn't really a starting point like that. It could be build in, but I will have to do that from scratch. So to me it has always been a static setting. The new vampire edition did include some prefab example settings of a few pages which I found interesting. A city without a Prince for example, because there is some sort of monster killing every Prince. But that is considered a very atypical vampire city.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;750741Of course it will always need some work to make it effect the players. But at least there is a starting point in the setting to make it have some impact.

Yup, I think we're in violent agreement at this point

Quote from: jan paparazzi;750741In the new wod there isn't really a starting point like that. It could be build in, but I will have to do that from scratch. So to me it has always been a static setting. The new vampire edition did include some prefab example settings of a few pages which I found interesting. A city without a Prince for example, because there is some sort of monster killing every Prince. But that is considered a very atypical vampire city.

But, again, I have to ask... this impacts the players/PCs *how*?  Why should the PCs go out of their way to do anything about this besides "well it's obviously what the GM prepped"?

That ain't a knock on you, btw.

Quote from: robiswrong;750748Yup, I think we're in violent agreement at this point

A starting point for me, I mean. It's where my creative juices start flowing, so to speak. My cool button is pushed.

Quote from: robiswrong;750748But, again, I have to ask... this impacts the players/PCs *how*?  Why should the PCs go out of their way to do anything about this besides "well it's obviously what the GM prepped"?

That ain't a knock on you, btw.

They don't have to do anything about it. They can if they want to. But if they don't it might affect them. They still live in a world where something is happening.

We live in a world of economical crisis at the moment. We can't do anything about it, but it still might affect you in a way. Same thing about globalization or the rise of the internet. All things affecting us in a way.

Back to the war. You gave examples about how it affects the characters. There are just different things to do, than in a peaceful universe or in a pirate filled anarchy.

How do I explain this? I think I just find it more interesting. Some plot. Not as complicated as the old wod clusterfuck. But just a little plot. To get things going. It gives a little direction to a game.


Edit:
To bring this topic back to where it started. I don't find all the faction based politics that interesting. I do like an antagonistic faction interesting to base a plot around. I would let my players run through several missions. Those missions will have one thing in common: the nemesis faction. So it will gradually become a campaign. I found the older wod games more immersive, because the antagonistic factions came with a plot. Now in the newer games those antagonistic factions are still present, but without any plot. They feel a little tacked on to me. I think that's the issue for me.