Quote from: ForumScavenger;722969My players expect psychics to be able to do anything from Star Wars, to creepy River type stuff, to X-Files / Lovecraft type material. They also expect that a character can be one of those things and not the others. As long as all three are present, they are happy. Leave one out and they will only want to play that.

Quote from: ForumScavenger;722969As long as all three are present, they are happy. Leave one out and they will only want to play that.

Quote from: ForumScavenger;722969Leave one out and they will only want to play that.

Are you one of these gamers?

And if so, what the fuck is wrong with you?

They're attention whores?

yes...idiotic attention whores is a succinct definition of players...why?

It's just a symptom of the culture.  News, entertainment, etc - I want exactly what I want and I want it now!

Most American's work lives are total complete shit in the fulfillment department, so when it comes to playtime, it better be 100% instant wish fulfillment or the channel/site/book/game gets changed.  Got no time for even imaginary frustration or failure in entertainment, that's the rest of their life.

Quote from: CRKrueger;722980It's just a symptom of the culture.  News, entertainment, etc - I want exactly what I want and I want it now!

I still have a copy somewhere of an op-ed piece published in Time, around twenty years ago, that opined that much that was now wrong with America was due to the explosion of cable channels, and that that was the kickoff event which led to the whole syndrome of people demanding that their tastes be catered to, down to the narrowest idiosyncrasy, and that failure to do so was an intolerable affront.

Heaven knows we see enough of it in gaming, where there's a wide swathe of opinion that holds that a game system sucks if it doesn't likewise cater to every individual prejudice, and that the suggestion "If you don't like a particular rule, or you'd like there to be a particular feature, houserule it" is treated as an insult.

This relates to my main axiom of GMing: "Give your players a choice between A and B and they will inevitably pick Q."

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;723002This relates to my main axiom of GMing: "Give your players a choice between A and B and they will inevitably pick Q."

JG

And when they've picked Q, and brow beaten the GM or group into accepting it, regardless of conceits of the system or setting, they will then try and apply Q to Z.

And then whine when Q doesn't do what they want.

I take a look at it from two different categories. If a player REALLY loves Q, and has had their heart set on playing a Q since they read about a Q, finding out Q is banned I can understand being a let-down. As a GM, I'll try to work with this, depending on the reason why I banned Q. Like, if it turns out the 3.5 game I'm running is in my own world and I banned Q because it literally doesn't exist, then I'd explain that and say 'Hey, I'll run a Greyhawk game or whatnot later on, and you can play a Q then.' If it's for a more minor reason, perhaps they can get me to rethink it(especially since I'm not likely to ban something unless it, well, doesn't exist in the world.)

If a player just wants to play Q to be a pain in the ass and act like a kid, then I'm much less patient and less likely to accommodate them. I can usually tell the difference.

QuoteHeaven knows we see enough of it in gaming, where there's a wide swathe of opinion that holds that a game system sucks if it doesn't likewise cater to every individual prejudice, and that the suggestion "If you don't like a particular rule, or you'd like there to be a particular feature, houserule it" is treated as an insult.

I never understood the supposed insult from being asked 'Why don't you houserule something?' The first thing I personally do when I get a book is read the thing and figure out what I'm going to be obviously houseruling(there are some things which I feel need testing first, and other things where I can see FLAT out I don't want to keep.) It's as natural to me as rolling dice. I suppose it's the whole 'But the book isn't catered to the type of game I WANT TO RUN QQ.' Then cater it or find a book that does.

Yeah, there's something wrong with uppity players that have preferences and/or expect to have some input on what type of game you're playing.  

It's the same reason every restaurant has a fixed menu and you only get what the kitchen is making that night - if you want something else, you should come back at the right time.  Oh wait, that's not how restaurants do it.  They let you pick what you want from the available options, and most restaurants will even let you switch options (I'd like this sandwich but I want it on this other type of bread; I want this meal, but I want this other side; I want this but hold the mayonaise).  

What's wrong with getting what you want, again?

Quote from: deadDMwalking;723068Yeah, there's something wrong with uppity players that have preferences and/or expect to have some input on what type of game you're playing.  

It's the same reason every restaurant has a fixed menu and you only get what the kitchen is making that night - if you want something else, you should come back at the right time.  Oh wait, that's not how restaurants do it.  They let you pick what you want from the available options, and most restaurants will even let you switch options (I'd like this sandwich but I want it on this other type of bread; I want this meal, but I want this other side; I want this but hold the mayonaise).  

What's wrong with getting what you want, again?

There's a difference between asking for chicken with the salsa verde instead of the marinara, even if it's not on the menu, and getting pissed when a taco truck doesn't have lobster bisque.

Quote from: Brad;723073There's a difference between asking for chicken with the salsa verde instead of the marinara, even if it's not on the menu, and getting pissed when a taco truck doesn't have lobster bisque.

True.  And if you're looking for salsa verde at an Italian restaurant, you might find out that they don't have it.  Not every option is always going to be available, and I'm on record as saying that setting consistency trumps options.  

If you want to play a samurai in Merry Olde England, that's not going to work.  

But if you want salsa verde, you should go to a Mexican restaurant and the GM of the Olive Garden shouldn't yell about how 'entitled' you feel.  

So when someone starts complaining about 'entitled players', I think it's fair to ask 'how does that make the game worse for anyone else at the table?'.  

Considering how many people here have pointed out that 'it shouldn't matter if your Fighter is weaker than his wizard - you're on the same team', it probably shouldn't matter if player A wants to be a 'medium' and player B wants to be an 'astropath'.

The players in question?

 

Quote from: CRKrueger;722980It's just a symptom of the culture.  News, entertainment, etc - I want exactly what I want and I want it now!

Most American's work lives are total complete shit in the fulfillment department, so when it comes to playtime, it better be 100% instant wish fulfillment or the channel/site/book/game gets changed.  Got no time for even imaginary frustration or failure in entertainment, that's the rest of their life.

MMmmmmaybe.

But there is also a certain strain of "plain old asshole" in the gaming world.  The type of player who if you say "There are no dwarfs in my world" instantly says "I want to be a dwarf."

It's less about "instant gratification" than it is about "being a fucknugget."

Roald Dahl had to model from something for the characters in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

Those archetypes are not all that hard to find if you look around. But I'm not paid to babysit as a GM, so I don't have such problems at my table.

Quote from: Opaopajr;723131Roald Dahl had to model from something for the characters in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

Those archetypes are not all that hard to find if you look around. But I'm not paid to babysit as a GM, so I don't have such problems at my table.

Same. If there are no dwarves, there are no dwarves. Fortunately I haven't had met a player who had to play his favourite race yet.