Tabletop RPGs vs. video games: the former are 'better'

Omega · November 18, 2013, 10:38:15 AM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;709408I'd rather play Fallout 3 on the computer than as a tabletop RPG, doing everything manually. See Exodus.

Fallout is based loosely off Wastelands... Which used the Tunnels & Trolls RPG system.

Shawn Driscoll · November 18, 2013, 02:29:36 PM

Quote from: Omega;709426Fallout is based loosely off Wastelands... Which used the Tunnels & Trolls RPG system.

One could say that Fallout 1 was based on GURPS. I prefer to play neither and play Fallout 3 on the computer instead. Let the computer do all the crunchy stuff for me.

Phillip · November 18, 2013, 02:50:18 PM

I suspect a fair number of people who got briefly into TTRPGs in the 1970s-80s did so because they didn't have the computer games (or even computers) they really wanted, and this was the closest substitute.

Most people are just more (if at all) into less labor intensive variations than into hardcore hobby games. It's the same even within the field of TT wargames: more people are ready to get in some Axis & Allies than to play Rise and Decline of the Third Reich.

Bradford C. Walker · November 18, 2013, 05:35:42 PM

Quote from: Phillip;709522I suspect a fair number of people who got briefly into TTRPGs in the 1970s-80s did so because they didn't have the computer games (or even computers) they really wanted, and this was the closest substitute.

Most people are just more (if at all) into less labor intensive variations than into hardcore hobby games. It's the same even within the field of TT wargames: more people are ready to get in some Axis & Allies than to play Rise and Decline of the Third Reich.

Yep, this.

For the common man, anything that looks like it takes effort is considered to be work, and people get paid to deal with bothersome bullshit like that. This fact is a big deal; it means that convenience trumps all other concerns, especially in matters of entertainment, and this is what dooms tabletop RPGs to be a small niche hobby with--at best--a cottage industry. To common folk, TRPGs look a lot like work and not like fun. They see no reason for why they should work for their entertainment, or why they should wait for it to "pay off" as if it were an investment (complete with risk of failure); "I don't want to think, and I don't want to wait; I want my fun RIGHT NOW." is how they operate and all of the trends in gaming as well as related media show this clearly. The sooner we accept this and move on, the better off everyone will be.

flyerfan1991 · November 18, 2013, 06:55:35 PM

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;709571Yep, this.

For the common man, anything that looks like it takes effort is considered to be work, and people get paid to deal with bothersome bullshit like that. This fact is a big deal; it means that convenience trumps all other concerns, especially in matters of entertainment, and this is what dooms tabletop RPGs to be a small niche hobby with--at best--a cottage industry. To common folk, TRPGs look a lot like work and not like fun. They see no reason for why they should work for their entertainment, or why they should wait for it to "pay off" as if it were an investment (complete with risk of failure); "I don't want to think, and I don't want to wait; I want my fun RIGHT NOW." is how they operate and all of the trends in gaming as well as related media show this clearly. The sooner we accept this and move on, the better off everyone will be.

I'd consider this akin to how streaming on Netflix has replaced a trip to Blockbuster. The convenience of not having to leave your home trumped the experience of driving to a store that may or may not have what you were hoping to find. In the process, finding that oddball flick or chatting with the local Blockbuster manager for info on the latest arthouse film he's fallen in love with has been lost.

Emperor Norton · November 18, 2013, 07:09:21 PM

Which makes a lot of sense considering that the amount of free time people have is plummeting, especially in the US.

The Traveller · November 18, 2013, 07:17:17 PM

Quote from: flyerfan1991;709581I'd consider this akin to how streaming on Netflix has replaced a trip to Blockbuster. The convenience of not having to leave your home trumped the experience of driving to a store that may or may not have what you were hoping to find.

It's still pretty much the exact same experience though, you end up with a movie either way.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;709581In the process, finding that oddball flick or chatting with the local Blockbuster manager for info on the latest arthouse film he's fallen in love with has been lost.

Mostly the minimum wager at the counter in Xtravision (local equivalent) didn't know or care. People went and read reviews or just talked to their friends, which is how it usually works for RPGs too (with the exception of forum discussions).

Surprising as it may be to some, normal people do get together to do lots of things these days - play a little football or golf, go out for a few drinks, that sort of thing. And if minecraft hasn't outsold WoW, I'd say it's certainly in the same league.

RPGPundit · November 19, 2013, 04:32:45 PM

I think there's no question that for a large number of people who WERE playing RPGs in the 70s and early 80s, they decided that video games were a better way to get the experience they wanted.

Arduin · November 19, 2013, 04:38:42 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;709881I think there's no question that for a large number of people who WERE playing RPGs in the 70s and early 80s, they decided that video games were a better way to get the experience they wanted.

Yes, I saw it happen "live" as it were. The people that didn't tend to leave for video games, at least in my circle, were the war gamers.

Omega · November 19, 2013, 05:14:52 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;709881I think there's no question that for a large number of people who WERE playing RPGs in the 70s and early 80s, they decided that video games were a better way to get the experience they wanted.

Not quite. What we saw were RPGers shifting to CRPGs for lack of gaming groups, or viable gaming groups, or because they wanted to be the player instead of eternally the GM.

When I have a gaming group going I tend to play CRPGs substantially less. And during the times theres been lulls, I turn to computer games for that RPG fix. I've known a few GMs who sideline on CRPGs because they want to be a player. Barring that they are convention RPGers.

YEMV of course. But thats been my experience from play and talking extensively with others at cons.

The Traveller · November 19, 2013, 05:19:48 PM

Quote from: Omega;709913YEMV of course. But thats been my experience from play and talking extensively with others at cons.

I agree with this and I'd add that there are many people who play both CRPGs and TTRPGs, which is similar to what you're saying but not quite the same.

robiswrong · November 19, 2013, 05:25:58 PM

I think it boils down to what people are looking to get out of their games, and what's the best way to do that. I call those things 'needs', and it really shapes how I think about different RPG types.

Tabletop is just better at satisfying certain needs than computer RPGs can be until we have significant advances in AI. The fact that you have a person sitting there that can made judgements on the fly is the primary strength of the medium. It's what allows tabletop games to be as truly immersive and responsive as they can be.

OTOH, computer RPGs are a lot more convenient, and do a great job at satisfying certain needs - the need to 'achieve', being told a story, the level/loot/build type stuff, etc.

Shawn Driscoll · November 19, 2013, 05:53:41 PM

Computers are good at doing the crunch. They're not so good at doing interactions with NPCs or creating new quests though. Computers are more addicting than tabletops (see WoW).