Quote from: Marleycat;709150How disappointing.

oh, I think I get what you were asking now.  In that case, the answer is yes.  It was very easy.  Most players did not use feats and used the ability bump instead, and there was no disruption in play between the balance of those who did use them and those who didn't.  Also, we played without the map and minis for every battle but the two big ones, so grid play is entirely optional and we swapped back and forth easily

Quote from: Skywalker;709147D&D5e doesn't contain the "modular" options that were promised at the start of the playtest. Its pretty much as hardwired as any previous edition of D&D.

I thought you could alter heal rates for example.
Also the moduar stuff will come though the additional books.

Having said all that there is a fair bit of 'use this power' which does feel a bit 4e-ish

Quote from: Skywalker;709153IIRC 5e does attempt to make Feats modular by saying you can ignore them, even though everything in the system assumes their use. So, as modular as 3e :/

I don't think so, to be honest.  For example, the NPC monster write ups don't have feats.  We mix and matched both depending on player preference and it worked well.  After Thaddeus died, the player decided to have his next PC take the lucky feat ;-).  It was a wise choice and saved his new character's life later on.

the only other PC who used feats was the fighter, and he chose the charger feat once and a stat bump (so he could use the ogre bow that required 18 STR) for the 2nd time.  It really was pretty seamless and wasn't game breaking to have some use them and others not.

Quote from: jibbajibba;709197I thought you could alter heal rates for example.
Also the moduar stuff will come though the additional books.

Having said all that there is a fair bit of 'use this power' which does feel a bit 4e-ish

speaking of healing, I do alter that for preference.  I play that you don't heal back all HP after a full rest.  You only get back all of your spent hit dice.

as for the second part, it didn't feel that way to me.  The only real "power" that was used was call of valor from the bard, and that felt like any other bard's ability.  All the other stuff was spells, and since Next uses vancian magic, felt a lot like AD&D.  90% of what the fighter did was a standard attack.  Only every once in a while did he do something like use expertise dice to knock prone the opponent

Quote from: Skywalker;709153IIRC 5e does attempt to make Feats modular by saying you can ignore them, even though everything in the system assumes their use. So, as modular as 3e :/

Eh, no. At certain levels you can choose to raise your Ability Scores or get a Feat. So if you, as a player, don't like them, you don't have to look at them. (Some of the optimiser crowd say, you shouldn't.) Of course, you can choose not to use them with the whole group. Then everybody just takes Ability Scores.

Quote from: 1of3;709208(Some of the optimiser crowd say, you shouldn't.) .

Sorry to hone in on this bit, but that old argument has already been proven to be a stupid position to take from an optimization standpoint because the people who made those arguments are unable to think outside of a very static "arena combat DPS mindset".  The lack of an ability to think outside of the box is pretty rampant in that crowd.

For example, an alertness feat doesn't impact DPS directly, so they think the stat boost is the better choice.  Well, not to an assassin rogue it's not.  The way alertness works in conjunction with the class's abilities means you're adding sneak attack damage to just about every attack.  That's just an example.

Quote from: 1of3;709208Eh, no. At certain levels you can choose to raise your Ability Scores or get a Feat. So if you, as a player, don't like them, you don't have to look at them. (Some of the optimiser crowd say, you shouldn't.) Of course, you can choose not to use them with the whole group. Then everybody just takes Ability Scores.

That's interesting that you can mix and match like that. What I would love is something like 2e but with feats and from what Sacrosanct is saying, that is totally possible.

The altering of healing rate and the ability to  change other things like options to alter build points, feat acquisition, stat bump rates and so on. Are what I'm looking for.

Quote from: Marleycat;709248That's interesting that you can mix and match like that. What I would love is something like 2e but with feats and from what Sacrosanct is saying, that is totally possible.

The altering of healing rate and the ability to  change other things like options to alter build points, feat acquisition, stat bump rates and so on. Are what I'm looking for.

I can only speak from my personal preference, of course, but one of the things I didn't like about 3e is that I would think of a neat concept I wanted to play, only to have other people say it was a worthless build.  Or the feeling like I had to preplan out my PCs advancement path way in advance.  I get how some people like that, but not me.  I prefer a style where I have  my core concept, and the paths he or she takes depends on what is going on in the game world, not something I planned out way in advance.

With Next, I still have some of that customization, but the feats are more like broader specialty groups, and you don't have to worry about preplanning out individual feats anymore.  And that's assuming you want to use them at all.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;709253I can only speak from my personal preference, of course, but one of the things I didn't like about 3e is that I would think of a neat concept I wanted to play, only to have other people say it was a worthless build.  Or the feeling like I had to preplan out my PCs advancement path way in advance.  I get how some people like that, but not me.  I prefer a style where I have  my core concept, and the paths he or she takes depends on what is going on in the game world, not something I planned out way in advance.

With Next, I still have some of that customization, but the feats are more like broader specialty groups, and you don't have to worry about preplanning out individual feats anymore.  And that's assuming you want to use them at all.

I hated that also. The flexibility I am looking for is more focused on before the game not during. Things that change the baseline to a group's preferences.

Quote from: jibbajibba;709197I thought you could alter heal rates for example.
Also the moduar stuff will come though the additional books.

Being able to modify healing rates is a far cry from the modularity promised initially IMO

EDIT: And looking at the playtest document, altering healing rates appears to have been removed.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;709198I don't think so, to be honest.  For example, the NPC monster write ups don't have feats.

Quote from: 1of3;709208Eh, no. At certain levels you can choose to raise your Ability Scores or get a Feat.

The Ability Score Improvement choice is pretty weak sauce compared to the benefits of what feats provide. Regardless of whether monsters use them, the current choice is an unsatisfactory one IMO as between the PCs.

FWIW I am actually quietly hopeful that D&D5e will be a good iteration of D&D, so don't read the above as being overly negative.  I just don't buy into WotC's promises of a unified D&D or high modularity, as they are just not born out in the playtest document.

That medusa in A2 is a beast, I think there was a petrification/poison death the last three times I ran it.

Last time, the thief poked his nose in for a look, petrified.

So another character decided to take a peek. Petrified.

Party just chucked in fire after that, at least...

Quote from: Skywalker;709262The Ability Score Improvement choice is pretty weak sauce compared to the benefits of what feats provide. Regardless of whether monsters use them, the current choice is an unsatisfactory one IMO as between the PCs.

This is entirely subjective, and not clear cut at all.  Several charoppers argue the exact opposite.  To me, that means it works as designed when it's so split.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;709289This is entirely subjective, and not clear cut at all.  Several charoppers argue the exact opposite.  To me, that means it works as designed when it's so split.

Fair enough.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;709289This is entirely subjective, and not clear cut at all.  Several charoppers argue the exact opposite.  To me, that means it works as designed when it's so split.

I think its fair to say that if the system lets you attempt anything and bases your chance of sucess on ability checks then bumping an ability score is gernerally going to be much more effective than taking a feat except in the case where a feat either allows you to do something others can't and therefore opens up yopur options or it gives you a substanital benefit on a corner case that you use a lot.

So in a game where everyeon can try to climb walls on a Strength check, and can jump on a strength check and can open doors on a strength check (etc )... using a slot to increase strength is probably better than using a feat to get +3 on jump. However, if you can get a new option called vertical leap and only people with vertical leap can jump up then there will be advantage cases (silly example but you get the idea)

Quote from: jibbajibba;709300I think its fair to say that if the system lets you attempt anything and bases your chance of sucess on ability checks then bumping an ability score is gernerally going to be much more effective than taking a feat except in the case where a feat either allows you to do something others can't and therefore opens up yopur options or it gives you a substanital benefit on a corner case that you use a lot.

So in a game where everyeon can try to climb walls on a Strength check, and can jump on a strength check and can open doors on a strength check (etc )... using a slot to increase strength is probably better than using a feat to get +3 on jump. However, if you can get a new option called vertical leap and only people with vertical leap can jump up then there will be advantage cases (silly example but you get the idea)

Luckily, feats in Next aren't like 3e where they are down to that level of scale.  In Next, they are more broad group benefits, where you get several bonuses and/or new abilities.