Anyways, to me its obvious that both RC D&D and D&D 3.x are D&D.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Consonant DudeOver there, a large number of users judge your posts and opinions by the number of posts you have and how popular you are. This leads other users into pretending they like popular things so they can gain acceptance. I know for a fact some posters over there are pimping games they have never read and never played as if they were the best thing since sliced bread. This is rather depressing and is not conducive to sincere discussions.

I once asked for my postcount to be zeroed. I figured they change usernames, why not postcounts? We know the software allows it, since for a while Cessna was zeroing his postcount each time he banned a user.

They reacted with incomprehension. Why would anyone want such a thing?

I explained that with a postcount in the thousands, some people were thinking well of me and what I said simply because of my postcount. I wanted the worth of what I had to say to be judged simply by what I said, not the postcount next to the post.

Now they reacted with hostility and indignation. I was told that I was wrong, postcounts didn't matter at all. I said, if they don't matter, why not zero mine? I was given a warning and told not to bring it up again.

I said a long time before that that in reality, forums have only one rule: don't fuck with the mods. If the mods like you, you can do whatever you want - see for example a (twice) permabanned poster who moved in with a mod and an admin into a share flat, and then became a mod himself (Curt). If the mods don't like you, then eventually you'll be banned, whatever you've done or not done - see for example, me. "You didn't break any rules but we feel you're generally bad for the site." "Bad for the site" means, "we mods don't like you." One of the causes of the dislike was my generally casual and sometimes brusque posting style; but the real kicker was that I fucked with the mods. I questioned the culture of the site. Questioning Tangency or postcount values is the same as going to a nightclub and questioning it being a pickup joint, or going to church and arguing with the priest about the existence of god.

Don't fuck with the mods. That's the only real rule any forum has.

Melan's post about moderation was very interesting, and I thank him for it. I find it particularly relevant since he's a moderator of an rpg site with twice as many members as rpg.net.

Quote from: Kester PelagiusRE: The whole "Tangency is the Devil" thing because it's "not RPG related" I find that arguement a bit odd, especially considering the number of other fora that exist that are NOT RPG related. What about Other Media Open? Not exactly game related that.

Tangency is not the devil, it's simply off-topic. You know how when you've got a thread about topic X, someone comes in and blabs about topic Y, and we call it a "threadcrap", and don't like it? Why don't we like it? Because we're having a nice happy discussion about something we're interested in, and this other fucking bullshit is dragged in, shit we're not interested in. Well, it's time to make up a new word: forumcrap. What a threadcrap is to a thread, a forumcrap is to a forum. Tangency is one big forumcrap on rpg.net.

The other thing is as we've said, moderation policies are drive by shit that's happened on Tangency. The moderation on a site about topic X is being driven by stuff which has nothing to do with X. Which is fucked.

Other Media is a different thing, it's actually related to rpgs. I mean, if people are discussing Conan the Barbarian or Thomas Covenant or Star Trek, that's very easy to relate to rpgs. "So, my day at work sucked," or "Marines kill 24 in Haditha" bears absolutely no relation to rpgs.

Quote from: HackmastergeneralAgain, you can disagree, but the only people who get banned are people who just can't stop acting like cockmunches. People who disagree, but don't act like a cockmunch, get along just fine.

ZOMFG u r makin a personla attack on t3h me!

u shud be t3h bannzorzed!

But here, you won't be. An innocent bit of discussion won't lead to surprise warnings or bannings. Just normal geeks talking shit between each-other won't have someone wander in and start editing their posts or hassling them.

Quote from: el diablo roboticoTrue to the dogpiling. But not true to the banning, unless you subsequently become a cockmunch as a result of the dogpiling (which isn't hard to do if you get pissed off enough at the dogpilers).

Well... I got dogpiled a shitload of times, and on each occasion remained cheerful and matter-of-fact. It really drove the fuckers crazy. If you're kicking a guy when he's down, you really hate it when he keeps smiling. But I still got bannzorzed, so there you go.

rpg.net remains a good site, because of its posters, and despite, not because of, the moderation. There are a lot of interesting discussions there - a lot of stuff which doesn't interest me, but would interest others, and a lot of stuff that is pretty stupid, but stupidity is often fun, too. The only reason I don't read it more often is that as an unregistered poster, I can only get 10 posts/page, which makes the big threads too slow to read through.

In answer to those saying, "why rag on the site, just don't read it," again we've got the good old bit of stupidity that's so common online - "the fallacy of the excluded middle." It's not, "either it's a wonderful perfect site and I read every thread, or it's utter shit and I can't bear a word." There are other possibilities, for example, "it has some good stuff, and is good despite, not because of the moderation; with better moderation, this good site could be a great site." Some of us talk about it because we regret the place, we're nostalgic for what could be.

It's like, at the end of my street are two vacant lots, used to be service stations. Now there's an empty building with broken windows, and a patch of rough grass and broken bricks. It's been like that for five years now. Every day when I pass on the way to work or the shops, I feel some regret. Those two lots could be four houses, or twelve units, or twenty apartments, or a small park, or a community garden, or a big shop. "Well if you don't like the vacant lots, just don't look at them! What do you care?" I care because it's sad - it's a waste of potential.

Now, rpg.net isn't a vacant lot. It's more like a somewhat rundown building still being used, but sadly run-down and scrappy-looking. And I feel regret, because it's a waste of potential. They've got 30,000 members, at least a thousand of whom post at least once a week. They could be any kind of site they wanted to. With that number of members, whatever their moderation policy or site focus they'd keep a good level of conversation going. They could have been anything. They chose to be less than they could be.

And why? Because people with no interest in discussing rpgs were instead discussing Dubya and gay marriage and abortion and what they did at work today and their new pen and h4wt cosplay chixxorz, and someone wanted "an emotionally-safe environment." Cessna mocked that phrase once. Now it's in the site's mission statement, in altered form - "as welcoming to as wide a range of users as possible."

Such a waste.

I got tired of standing up for people whose threads were closed or who were banned for reasons I considered unjust, only to have moderators refuse my attempts at making sense.

That, and I felt like I didn't belong anymore.

Great big bags of cheetos!

I guess the best place to begin is with the main topic. . .

RE: Tangency.  Is it off-topic?  Yes, but that's it's entire point and purpose.  Does it sometimes seem like the posts are totally absurd?  That depends on your point of view.

Current events and news threads don't appeal to all adults, but they do to some, and in any forum you're going to have certain current events that just come up.  Having Tangency is at least a pressure valve for people to have a place to post that sort of non-RPG related subject matter.

RE:

QuoteOther Media is a different thing, it's actually related to rpgs. I mean, if people are discussing Conan the Barbarian or Thomas Covenant or Star Trek, that's very easy to relate to rpgs. "So, my day at work sucked," or "Marines kill 24 in Haditha" bears absolutely no relation to rpgs.

I'd say that depends on your RPG.  If I'm running an modern day espionage game current world events may have a very real bearing on my game world or even give me ideas.  As for talking about your day at work, again that depends on the context.  OTOH it's Tangency, the forum to vent and rant and whatever.

RE:

Quoterpg.net remains a good site, because of its posters, and despite, not because of, the moderation. There are a lot of interesting discussions there - a lot of stuff which doesn't interest me, but would interest others, and a lot of stuff that is pretty stupid, but stupidity is often fun, too. The only reason I don't read it more often is that as an unregistered poster, I can only get 10 posts/page, which makes the big threads too slow to read through.

But just think the upside to that is unregistered users don't see Tangency, so you at least don't have to see all the off-topic posts.  OPAH!

BTW: There's a new message up now.  Looks like the upgrade is moving along apace and RPGnet should be back up and running soon.  Maybe.

Quote from: David RWas it American Badass who once said:

"Games should be played like pussy eaten"

Regards,
David R

Brohammer, only he gets to say that, and live.

...And they are back, at least for the moment being.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityBrohammer, only he gets to say that, and live.

I always thought that would make a good tagline for a game company.

"Games for folks who like to..."

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Spike"I saw this post and I totally think it would offend someone. I'm not sure who, but I reported it. Why haven't the mods banned this guy yet?"

Its frankly odd. Their comment suggests that they didn't personally find it offensive, but they reported it anyway. They don't respond to posters that irk them, they report them. They don't wait to be offended, they report everything...

I bet they were the lonely kid that all the other kids hated, who ran to the teacher every time someone did something that might get them in trouble because they liked watching other kids get in trouble.  Yeah, that takes a special kind of personality, that enjoys watching people get in trouble more than having friends.

Quote from: Hackmastergeneralumm...no?

if you don't go with the group think and act like a cockmunch, you get dogpiled and banned.

Again, you can disagree, butthe only people who get banned are people who just can't stop acting like cockmunches.  People who disagree, but don't act like a cockmunch, get along just fine.

The problem comes though, in that what defines "being a cockmunch" has a lot to do with "holding positions I don't agree with".  

This can be a perfectly acceptable way to decide such thing.  I doubt you or I would object to defining racist views like Nox's as "being a cockmunch".

But then you get instances like myself, where simply loudly disagreeing with the direction of the moderation suddenly means you're "a cock munch".  Or disagreeing on the quality of the latest RPGnet darling.

Amado G ultimately got banned because he found one of the Exalted books repugnant, and held no punches about saying so.

Never mind that the word "cock munch" itself would likely be declared a group attack on gays or something given the state of things there.

And further, there's plenty of cockmunches on that site that get away just fine with being banned.  You just have to be a passive-aggressive cockmunch, or a mod, like Maclennan.  You can be a raging troll who starts nothing but arguments with your every post, and still skate by free and clear, like Geza Echs and the rest of the Devil's Advocacy Squad.  

Ultimately the thing that ended up frustrating the shit out of me with RPGnet was inconsistency.  There's not really any rhyme or reason to it beyond "What the mods like/dislike" and "what generates the most whining in the form of reports".  They seem to have a direction in mind, but no real consistent way of applying it.

After my departure, I wandered off to other sites with far less heavy-handed moderation, and frankly I prefer it entirely.

Quote from: J ArcaneThe problem comes though, in that what defines "being a cockmunch" has a lot to do with "holding positions I don't agree with".  

This can be a perfectly acceptable way to decide such thing.  I doubt you or I would object to defining racist views like Nox's as "being a cockmunch".

But then you get instances like myself, where simply loudly disagreeing with the direction of the moderation suddenly means you're "a cock munch".  Or disagreeing on the quality of the latest RPGnet darling.

Amado G ultimately got banned because he found one of the Exalted books repugnant, and held no punches about saying so.

Never mind that the word "cock munch" itself would likely be declared a group attack on gays or something given the state of things there.

And further, there's plenty of cockmunches on that site that get away just fine with being banned.  You just have to be a passive-aggressive cockmunch, or a mod, like Maclennan.  You can be a raging troll who starts nothing but arguments with your every post, and still skate by free and clear, like Geza Echs and the rest of the Devil's Advocacy Squad.  

Ultimately the thing that ended up frustrating the shit out of me with RPGnet was inconsistency.  There's not really any rhyme or reason to it beyond "What the mods like/dislike" and "what generates the most whining in the form of reports".  They seem to have a direction in mind, but no real consistent way of applying it.

After my departure, I wandered off to other sites with far less h

Yo, arcane, how about trying to make like one post without making me the "negative example" for a change? It gets a little fucking old after a while.

Oh, btw, what you said about being a cockmunch equalling "holding views unlike mine" also applies to being a racist.

Quote from: J ArcaneUltimately the thing that ended up frustrating the shit out of me with RPGnet was inconsistency.  There's not really any rhyme or reason to it beyond "What the mods like/dislike" and "what generates the most whining in the form of reports".

I was banned from RPGnet, but this particular issue had been a source of frustration for me going on four years at the time of my banning. There is no point in having rules if they're applied willy-nilly. In order to work as intended, rules have to be applied consistently across the board.

Or as my good friend Thomas liked to say "What's good for one must be good for all, if rules are to create order rather than chaos."

What made this entirely frustrating is there are (or were) several RPGnet mods who should have, by all means, have understood this (i.e., mods with a history of military service and/or employment as aw enforcement officers). This drove me absolutely nuts.

The only real (i.e., inviolate) rule at RPGnet is "Do not question the mods" -- all of the others seem to blink in and out of existence as the mods see fit (especially when other mods happen to be breaking them).

RPGnet is back up, btw...

Quote from: Dominus NoxAmado G ultimately got banned because he found one of the Exalted books repugnant, and held no punches about saying so.

Well, no, actually.  Amado got banned because he was unable to stop doing things so blatant that the mods couldn't avoid banning him without looking like total and irrefutable hypocrites. That's why they banned him with a heavy heart.  He was one of their own, part of the clique, but his personal issues made it necessary to sacrifice him for the sake of maintaining their thin veneer of credibility (more like suspension of disbelief) with the "proles".

RPGPundit

Quote from: el diablo roboticoThat wouldn't be mrlost's copy would it? Cuz if so then that would've actually been *my* copy, cuz he was borrowing it from me for a while (unless he went out and bought it afterwards). Just mentioning that cuz it's a funny coincidence.

Yup, it was probably yours then. I don't think he actually bought C&C, just borrowed yours.

Quote from: Tom BRPGnet is back up, btw...

And the last round of the PbP I was in has vanished into the process.
Still, at least we've got Tangency Pr0n Monday.... :rolleyes: