Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;707971WOTC did target MMO players back when 3.X was a thing.  They failed.

Which 3.x books specifically?

(That is, besides the third party Everquest and Warcraft d20 books).

Quote from: ggroy;707973Which 3.x books specifically?

(That is, besides the third party Everquest and Warcraft d20 books).

Not books, marketing; those ads about playing with your friends were aimed at MMO players, and while one of the aims of those ads--making your product known to the target audience--did succeed the reason that WOTC failed was that said audience took a look at the product and said "Fuck this bullshit." and stuck with their MMO or CRPG of choice.

Quote from: The Traveller;707909Pointless, as I've said earlier it would need something like the guys behind D&D to send out a press release, or Onyx Path or someone like that. I'll send out a few emails when I get the chance to compose my thoughts a bit better. Not that there's a whole lot to it, it's just common sense really.

You've not been able to convince one person in this thread that calling TTRPGs something else, or CRPGs something else, would make any difference at all to the RPG industry or hobby. And agreeing with someone on the internet is free. You've not even been able to translate the of your underpants gnome plan into a coherent statement. Yet you think a quick email to Wizards might just convince them to put real money behind a massive advertising campaign to enforce the new non-RPG terminology and thus magically create a whole generation of new players/customers? You're delusional.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;707914In other words, you don't think talking to MMO players to get a "come to Jesus" moment will do any good, so what makes you think that marketers would be willing to spend money on that project?

Just so we're clear, you're talking about signing in to WoW and accosting random players with talk about TTRPGs? Seriously?

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;707977Not books, marketing; those ads about playing with your friends were aimed at MMO players, and while one of the aims of those ads--making your product known to the target audience--did succeed the reason that WOTC failed was that said audience took a look at the product and said "Fuck this bullshit." and stuck with their MMO or CRPG of choice.

Of course if you'd read the thread you'd know that had already been addressed. The key strengths of TTRPGs have never been advertised.

Quote from: soviet;707990You've not been able to convince one person in this thread that calling TTRPGs something else, or CRPGs something else, would make any difference at all to the RPG industry or hobby. And agreeing with someone on the internet is free. You've not even been able to translate the of your underpants gnome plan into a coherent statement. Yet you think a quick email to Wizards might just convince them to put real money behind a massive advertising campaign to enforce the new non-RPG terminology and thus magically create a whole generation of new players/customers? You're delusional.

Just so everyone's aware, soviet whose real name is printed on his avatar, almost got himself banned for stalking me from thread to thread previously, so this current trollery shouldn't come as a surprise.

Quote from: soviet;707990You've not been able to convince one person in this thread that calling TTRPGs something else, or CRPGs something else, would make any difference at all to the RPG industry or hobby. And agreeing with someone on the internet is free. You've not even been able to translate the of your underpants gnome plan into a coherent statement. Yet you think a quick email to Wizards might just convince them to put real money behind a massive advertising campaign to enforce the new non-RPG terminology and thus magically create a whole generation of new players/customers? You're delusional.

Nah. It is actually a sound idea. Its just that its not going to be enforceable.
As I pointed out previously. Any new term will get co-opted and we are right back to square one.

The other problem is enforcement. Every publisher and game designer who thinks its a stupid idea, or does not like the new term for RPGs, or just doesnt know there is a new term,  is going to promptly ignore it and keep calling RPGs... RPGs...  We've been using the term 40 years now. Its too ingrained to the game.

As said. The better tactic is to find a term for CRPGs and JRPGs all their own and get THAT to stick. Lots o' luck that too.

Excluding the active/former tabletop rpg players and MMO crowds, what other audiences could be receptive to the the idea of tabletop rpg games?

Quote from: ggroy;708019Excluding the active/former tabletop rpg players and MMO crowds, what other audiences could be receptive to the the idea of tabletop rpg games?

War gamers.  That's where most of the early day RPG'ers came from.

Quote from: The Traveller;708017Just so everyone's aware, soviet whose real name is printed on his avatar, almost got himself banned for stalking me from thread to thread previously, so this current trollery shouldn't come as a surprise.

Reported. My real name is not on my avatar, the resolution is too low to make it out (someone sane please correct me if I'm wrong). In any event I don't see what my name has to do with anything, or why you're bringing it up. Disagreeing with you is not stalking you. I tried to engage your initial argument but you immediately resorted to attacks and now stalking. You've brought my name up before and been warned about it, as well as being warned for following me from thread to thread calling me a nazi and a SA goon and other things. You have serious issues.

Quote from: soviet;708032Reported.

For what?

Quote from: soviet;708032My real name is not on my avatar, the resolution is too low to make it out (someone sane please correct me if I'm wrong).

Your name & address are on there.

Quote from: The Traveller;708017Just so everyone's aware, soviet whose real name is printed on his avatar, almost got himself banned for stalking me from thread to thread previously, so this current trollery shouldn't come as a surprise.

No, this is what stalking looks like (with some mod responses):

Quote from: The Traveller;621973Oh jesus the nazi is back.

Quote from: The Traveller;621976What, you ran out of people to gas and came over here to expel some gas of your own, you nazi bastard? What is your relationship to something awful, he asks, already knowing the answer.

Quote from: The Traveller;621984So no denial then. But that's hardly a surprise. Tell us once again himmler, what is your relationship to something awful?

Quote from: The Traveller;622009Shit rarely falls far from the same shovel. He will always be a nazi bastard to me.

Quote from: The Traveller;622108No, I've noticed previously that several of my exchanges with soviet or in threads he was posting in immediately got posted to grognards.txt. Don't ask me for examples, I couldn't be bothered. Combine that with his storygame angle plus the delay in his denial of posting to SA and I would have questions.

Quote from: The Traveller;658954Instead we get the likes of silva and soviet (a tag quite as offensive to many people as 'SS', and for similar reasons incidentally) trying to sell it as hard as they can.

Quote from: Benoist;622174I don't need to think about it a bit more. I'm trying to gently bring to your attention that this had better not turn into a stalking situation with you calling soviet a nazi from thread to thread, because that's going to get real bad from there for you. Do you feel me right now?

Quote from: The Traveller;622181If someone doesn't want to be compared to nazis, they'd best not come wandering in quoting mein kampf.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;622182Soviet didn't do that.

Quote from: The Traveller;657185The behaviour of the likes of jhkim and soviet is closer to people who've for reasons best known to themselves eaten a dogshit sandwich, know they've eaten a dogshit sandwich, know that everyone else knows they've eaten a dogshit sandwich, and must needs therefore insist not only that everyone else have one of these dogshit sandwiches but declare them the finest food ever, the very manna of the gods, food v2.0.

Quote from: The Traveller;611453Apparently even the Spirit of Christmas Present isn't able to elevate the collective IQ of the aryan brotherhood. Hit the bricks towhead, stormfront is two floors down. Oh, and pass on my sympathies to ettin's sig, that was a damn good quote.

Quote from: The Traveller;660060I dunno, the more I read of the two or three people making the same circular arguments even after being roundly defeated, people like Mark Humphreys aka soviet (the Pundit mentioned his name in the review of his game) and silva the more convinced I am that they're just doing it for grognards.txt fodder. The problem is that people around here are too willing to engage with and talk about anything, laudable in most circumstances but when dealing with unhinged internet characters like these mostly self defeating.

Quote from: RPGPundit;660463Can you explain what the fuck is relevant about Soviet's real name? Because its seriously starting to look like you're just stalking him at this point.

There were other threads/posts where Traveller tried to stalk me, including one where he referred to watching my posts over at rpg.net and the one where he tried to drum up people into reporting me for... something. But I'm bored with googling now. Seriously Traveller WTF. I'm just here to call people cunts and say they are roleplaying wrongly, just like you are. I'm not out to get you banned, I just want you to stop being a creepy stalker.

Both of you should take this to the report function or the help desk.

Quote from: Arduin;708037For what?

He thinks he's on rpgnet.

Quote from: Arduin;708037Your name & address are on there.

Not to mention right in the link in his sig.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;708065Both of you should take this to the report function or the help desk.

Yeah, this isn't the first time he's shit up threads with personal vendettas, in fact he's been one of the very few people I've ever reported, and for this exact reason.

I don't have any interest in saving selective quotes for a rainy day as he apparently did, but I certainly could.

And in fairness, to many members of this board the soviets were just as bad as the nazis, if not worse. I'll leave him to it and put him on ignore at this point, if only to prevent him wrecking the thread further.

Quote from: The Traveller;708075He thinks he's on rpgnet.

:rotfl:

Quote from: The Traveller;708017Just so we're clear, you're talking about signing in to WoW and accosting random players with talk about TTRPGs? Seriously?

You are aware that people do that in WoW, but with other things like gold farming and religion, right?

Or that you'd be talking to people whose toons have names such as "Stabbystabstab", "Ikeelmore", "steelerfan", and "dethforyou"?  And that's not counting the racist names that somehow managed to avoid the filters, or the people who created toons on the Moon Guard server so they could go to the inn at Goldshire and engage in some hot ERP.

If you want your idea to have legs, go hang out in WoW and find out what the people there are like, and then decide whether it'll fly.  Don't take our word for it, go do some research.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;708094If you want your idea to have legs, go hang out in WoW and find out what the people there are like, and then decide whether it'll fly.  Don't take our word for it, go do some research.

So let's see, you think that I can somehow engage with a useful percentage of the seven odd million people who play WoW, one by one, while they're trying to play WoW. Yeah, no.

To return to what we were discussing, before the attempted deliberate derailments and general hysteria, the points I'm making are three:

• TTRPGs have at least one major advantage you can't find anywhere else, and several other semi unique advantages. Nowhere has this ever been advertised.
• Further I'm saying that as a hobby, we need to highlight these advantages by getting rid of the brand confusion introduced by the vastly larger and more visible computer RPG hobby.
• And lastly I'm saying that we could create a stir across the internet by both getting several large TTPRG companies to announce this change in branding and also highlight the reasons why - both the advantages and the brand confusion.

That's it, that's all. A press release would do it, and some light editing on new products.

The ensuing murderous rage and attempts to get the thread shut down highlights that this is exactly the right approach to take, assuming several in this thread are representative of the MMO community (and they certainly claim to be). A simple suggestion, not offensive and certainly supportable by the facts, and the hardcore MMOers will be frothing at the mouth.

Which is a good thing in terms of coverage and awareness for the hobby.

I don't think there's any hope in trying to get everyone else to change their use of the term, and I don't think anyone else would try to steal it if the splash gets big enough, especially if the (very few) big players in the hobby make a concerted effort to own that space. If smaller publishers dn't follow suit, their loss.