Quote from: JRT;707435I think this is less a serious attempt to expand the audience of Tabletop RPGs than a way to justify acting superior to Computer RPGs.

Acting elitist towards something that doesn't exist is pointless.

Quote from: Arduin;707439Acting elitist towards something that doesn't exist is pointless.

Majority controls definition of a word.  You can scream or sneer all you want, but Computer RPGs exist and I enjoy playing them.  At best, that statement sounds like the elitism you sarcastically dismiss, at worst you'd appear delusional as people who believe in radical conspiracy theories.

In short, again, want to make your hobby appeal to newcomers--don't start taking potshots at the stuff they like from the get-go.

Quote from: JRT;707435I think this is less a serious attempt to expand the audience of Tabletop RPGs than a way to justify acting superior to Computer RPGs.

Acting elitist is not the way to expand the audience.

See? Another one. Beat the ground and the worms arise, this mad defensive paranoia is perfect.

Quote from: JRT;707444Majority controls definition of a word.

Nope. Try again until you get it right though.

Quote from: The Traveller;707445See? Another one. Beat the ground and the worms arise, this mad defensive paranoia is perfect.

Not mad at all.  I like Tabletop stuff too, and I'd be a little saddened to see the market dry up.  

The difference is I see your call to change terminology and act superior--which is what you're coming across as, regardless as how you intend to be--as utterly futile to expanding the hobby.  Most people will ignore the insult and continue having fun with their own stuff, while people in the minority hobby just get grumpier and grumpier and wonder why there are fewer and fewer players.

Quote from: ArduinNope. Try again until you get it right though.

Actually I'm correct--if there's a majority and an established period of use, definitions change.  I'm not talking about truth but about additional uses of the word.

Gay used to mean happy and carefree, but say it today and the first thing people think of is homosexual.  The definition has been transformed--the original is still there, but it's become overshadowed by the new meaning.  And that's for a colloquialism--Computer RPGs and Tabletop RPGs share so much similar DNA that it makes sense for the term to encompass both types of games.

Quote from: The Traveller;707445See? Another one. Beat the ground and the worms arise, this mad defensive paranoia is perfect.

Just leave the hose on and let the birds take care of 'em.

Quote from: The Traveller;707427The point being made, and the point that was predicted in this thread, is that MMO players will throw tantrums when this stuff surfaces, which is great news in terms of marketing coverage.

Imagine a thousand - no, ten thousand - Brads, jiggling cheeto bits with indignant wrath all over their keyboards, like a giant field of dry grass just waiting for the right spark. By their very repudiation they raise awareness.

Yes indeed, fertile territory. And pretty funny too.

I was pointing out that it takes more work and effort to assemble a group of people to play a tabletop RPG than most of the alternatives. Particularly for a campaign.

Skillwise MMORPGs have their own challenges, some harder and some easier than tabletop RPG. To act if Tabletop RPGs are a superior intellectual activity is plain silly. The same with LARPS, CRPGs, miniature wargames, hex and counter wargames, etc.

Quote from: Arduin;707458Just leave the hose on and let the birds take care of 'em.

Better to go fishing with them I think.

Quote from: estar;707459To act if Tabletop RPGs are a superior intellectual activity is plain silly.

And this is the funny thing you see - nowhere did I or as far as I can see anyone else say as much. And yet we have the Defenders of the Internet leaping to the ramparts in response to these imaginary insults, which is exactly what I said would happen.

Quote from: The Traveller;707481Better to go fishing with them I think.

Most fish have better taste than that...

Quote from: The Traveller;707481And this is the funny thing you see - nowhere did I or as far as I can see anyone else say as much. And yet we have the Defenders of the Internet leaping to the ramparts in response to these imaginary insults, which is exactly what I said would happen.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks...

Quote from: Emperor Norton;707397I think this is an incredibly accurate analogy.

True, and it's still relevant, but not as powerful as it once was.

Tabletop RPGs should be like Broadway--Broadway keeps their level of revenue in with new shows, etc, but they don't try to seriously compete with movies or TV.  They are comfortable where they are and realize they are their own niche.

Some aspects of MMOs and CRPGs that will allways drive certain players away and over to TTRPGs.

1: Reflex and/or CPU being more important than problem solving. I had to quit Champions due to a crummy ISP.

2: Grinding. God some MMOs are made of pure grindolium. I've got four lifetime memberships for various AE MSOs and just got sick of the ever increasing grinding that the game revolve around. Then quit off AQ Worlds too. Champions started to get a bit tedious for some of the crafting grinds. But at least those are optional. Less a problem in CRPGs, but Ive played one or two where it was more notable.

3: PVP: Some love it. Most hate it. Usually for reason #1. If it is optional. Fine. But if its integral then no way. Not a problem with CRPGs, usually.

4: Lack of actual story to follow: Anarchy is pretty much that. Its just there. There are places you can work through. But they are just... there and theres no real story behind it half the time. Most MMOs arent so bad for that. Most CRPGs tend to have a fair bit of story. Some more than others.

Probably other reasons I've just never heard players mention personally.
I picked up one player on the rebound of quitting MMOs die to getting sick of grinding. At least one other I know went to TT when they discovered the freedom actual RPGs allowed with the right GMs.

Quote from: JRT;707502True, and it's still relevant, but not as powerful as it once was.

Tabletop RPGs should be like Broadway--Broadway keeps their level of revenue in with new shows, etc, but they don't try to seriously compete with movies or TV.  They are comfortable where they are and realize they are their own niche.

I think is a great analogy.

"I heard you like the bad girls..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7-a_Cg2xz0

Quote from: dragoner;707632"I heard you like the bad girls..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7-a_Cg2xz0

I prefer this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-yHSaP0Dyg

Seriously though this cunning plan has a shelf life, they're going to start forklifting these guys out of their parents' basements in their late thirties and early forties when the wave of heart attacks and strokes thin the herd. Fanatical MMO players will in truth be a dying breed.