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Tabletop RPGs vs. video games: the former are 'better'

Started by elfandghost, November 10, 2013, 03:30:46 AM

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Phillip

#45
November 10, 2013, 03:31:33 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;706842No, they aren't, and this next bit is crucial: as we define RPGs. They are computer games, something completely different, which have misappropriated the title RPG.
Your "we" isn't everyone's, obviously! For my part, I'll call it a role-playing game when it's to the main point of interest that I'm playing a role, rather than limit it to some arbitrary set of mechanical techniques. It's just a lot more straightforward that way, the same as calling something a wargame regardless of whether it uses tin soldiers, wooden blocks, cardboard counters, or a computer network.
And we are here as on a darkling plain  ~ Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, ~ Where ignorant armies clash by night.

TristramEvans

#46
November 10, 2013, 03:35:48 PM
To society as a whole, the term RPG is inextricable from video games.

Railing against that is pointless.

The only time I've found that making the distinction is necessary in my own life, however, is when I use an online search engine. Otherwise I've never encountered any confusion.

Sacrosanct

#47
November 10, 2013, 03:37:32 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;706842No, they aren't, and this next bit is crucial: as we define RPGs.

No, as "we" (the collective we) define it, they are RPGS.  It's right there in the common definition of what an RPG is, regardless of your personal preference.. This is not up for debate.  It's quite objective because we have the definition to point to.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Phillip

#48
November 10, 2013, 03:43:14 PM Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 03:50:25 PM by Phillip
Quote from: Omega;706844Was it really a RPG? Or was it a text adventure game or roguelike? Text adventure in some form may predate RPGs. Not sure when the first were coded?

One of the earliest CRPGs was dnd which is just a dungeoncrawl or proto roguelike in 75. I still have an old copy of DND/Telengard from 77 (Didnt get it till 82 as Telengard.)
FF came out in 87.
The distinction between Adventure games (named after Adventure, a.k.a. Colossal Cave and other names) and RPGs, in computer software jargon, came gradually. Rogue as a third category is something I don't recall encountering until quite recently (and I'm not sure how many people still consider it simply a subtype of Adventure/RPG).

It's always bemused me that the RPG category got assigned to games that put the emphasis on numerical stats and, from Wizardry on, often had one playing the "role" of a whole party. The early text-based Adventure type, on the other hand, put one very much in the shoes of a single character, getting information in character rather than from a bird's/accountant's eye view.
And we are here as on a darkling plain  ~ Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, ~ Where ignorant armies clash by night.

The Traveller

#49
November 10, 2013, 03:59:40 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;706846To society as a whole, the term RPG is inextricable from video games.

Railing against that is pointless.
Indeed, but going around it is quite pointed.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;706847No, as "we" (the collective we) define it, they are RPGS.  It's right there in the common definition of what an RPG is, regardless of your personal preference.. This is not up for debate.  It's quite objective because we have the definition to point to.
This is a pretty ignorant post.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

The Traveller

#50
November 10, 2013, 04:00:29 PM
Quote from: Phillip;706845Your "we" isn't everyone's, obviously!
Yes, and when we're on theeveryonesite.com that will matter.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

TristramEvans

#51
November 10, 2013, 04:05:49 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;706849Indeed, but going around it is quite pointed.

Yeah, I personally don't care much if an RPG refers to itself as an adventure game, storytelling game ( though that's become somewhat of a loaded expression with the advent of story games), parlour game, wargame, imagineering engine, or what have you.

Perhaps one such term will eventually come to dominance, but likely not until D&D itself ceases to refer to itself as an RPG.

The Traveller

#52
November 10, 2013, 04:07:21 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;706852Yeah, I personally don't care much if an RPG refers to itself as an adventure game, storytelling game ( though that's become somewhat of a loaded expression with the advent of story games), parlour game, wargame, imagineering engine, or what have you.
Good for you. Of course we aren't talking about whether or not you care, but rather about the general well being of the hobby.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

TristramEvans

#53
November 10, 2013, 04:10:04 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;706854Good for you. Of course we aren't talking about whether or not you care, but rather about the general well being of the hobby.

Are we? I haven't seen anything to suggest the well being of the hobby has been affected by that, thus I assume we're all talking about personal preference, I.e, what we care about.

Shauncat

#54
November 10, 2013, 04:10:42 PM
I define RPG as "similar to pre-2000s D&D". It doesn't accurately reflect my opinion, but I spend a lot of time in video game design discussion circles, and I need something simple that doesn't define, say, the Tomb Raider reboot as an "action RPG". It's an action game, choosing which gun you want to do more DPS shouldn't make it an RPG.

The Traveller

#55
November 10, 2013, 04:12:36 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;706855Are we? I haven't seen anything to suggest the well being of the hobby has been affected by that, thus I assume we're all talking about personal preference, I.e, what we care about.
Perhaps give a read to the thread next time. Or even this other thread, linked on page three of this thread.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

TristramEvans

#56
November 10, 2013, 04:19:49 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;706858Perhaps give a read to the thread next time. Or even this other thread, linked on page three of this thread.

Oh I understand some posters have taken that as their premise, I just don't think they've succeeded in supporting that premise as yet.

The Traveller

#57
November 10, 2013, 04:24:47 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;706861Oh I understand some posters have taken that as their premise, I just don't think they've succeeded in supporting that premise as yet.
Or, you're backpedalling after not reading the thread.

I don't think there's much dispute that the RPG hobby, our RPG hobby, has suffered by the misappropriation of its title. If you want support hit Google, as indicated in the linked thread, you'll find all the support you need. There's plenty of dispute as to what to do about it, the hat I'm throwing into the ring says "change the name". Most hats say "I don't really care", which is great from a personal perspective but isn't doing the hobby as a whole any favours. And this is a matter of concern to me.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

Phillip

#58
November 10, 2013, 04:52:07 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;706850Yes, and when we're on theeveryonesite.com that will matter.
Pardon, I didn't know this was The Traveller's Royal We Site.
And we are here as on a darkling plain  ~ Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, ~ Where ignorant armies clash by night.

The Traveller

#59
November 10, 2013, 04:54:06 PM
Quote from: Phillip;706870Pardon, I didn't know this was The Traveller's Royal We Site.
It's not, it's theRPGSite, wherein referring to "we" is almost certainly not an attempt to speak for the public at large, and in the context of this discussion, definetely not.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.
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