Quote from: mcbobbo;705770I feel like I misunderstood something.  So PHB1 has all the rules for the core classes, adjudication,  skills, whatnot and the others are splat?

I was under the impression that one book was martial and one casting, or some other whatnot.

I am not certain, but I thought they put out a complete rulebook with essentials.

Quote from: mcbobbo;705770I feel like I misunderstood something.  So PHB1 has all the rules for the core classes, adjudication,  skills, whatnot and the others are splat?

I was under the impression that one book was martial and one casting, or some other whatnot.

Yes. PHB Has 8 races and 8 classes (4 martial, 2 arcane and 2 divine). Its very much like the PHB for any other edition of D&D in terms of coverage (it even includes magic items which is traditionally reserved for the DMG).

The PHB2 is pretty much the same. The 8 classes it adds were 4 primal (new), 2 arcane and 2 divine (bringing it up to 4 for each Power source).

The PHB3 adds 4 psionic, 1 Arcane and 1 Divine class, as well as some new mechanics (skill powers and hybrid classes)

There is also a series of Power books that expanded the base 4 classes per Power source (roughly doubling the options).

Quote from: Bill;705773I am not certain, but I thought they put out a complete rulebook with essentials.

No. Essentials books are less complete than the core book on a book by book basis. The Compendium has all the rules needed to be referred to at the table, but it lacks all PC and monster information.

The Heroes of the F Word books have everything you need to play as a player, but not as a DM. You could probably play with one of those books, much like you could a PHB.

The DM's Kit is 95% a replication of the Compendium with some additional content. This was frustrating as if you wanted to run Essentials 4e, you should actually skip the Compendium, which sounds like the most essential book.

Quote from: Skywalker;705779No. Essentials books are less complete than the core book on a book by book basis. The Compendium has all the rules needed to be referred to at the table, but it lacks all PC and monster information.

The Heroes of the F Word books have everything you need to play as a player, but not as a DM. You could probably play with one of those books, much like you could a PHB.

The DM's Kit is 95% a replication of the Compendium with some additional content. This was frustrating as if you wanted to run Essentials 4e, you should actually skip the Compendium, which sounds like the most essential book.

Sounds pretty borked; book wise.

Funny thing is that when I run 4E I don't really seem to need the rulebook.

Quote from: Bill;705797Sounds pretty borked; book wise.

Funny thing is that when I run 4E I don't really seem to need the rulebook.

Essentials is a mess as it was juggling way too many balls. I much prefer the standard corebook run up to Essentials, though I will admit that the later monster books were an improvement.

But you are right about referencing at the table, and it is the main reason why the Compendium is a nice book as it contains nearly any referencing required. The Compendium is just not good as (nor intended to be) a complete ruleset.

Quote from: mcbobbo;705416Dndclassics has a D&D Rules Compendium (4e) up thos week.  Since I really know very little about the rules of that system, I am contemplating it.  Anyone know if it's a good way to learn the mechanics of that system?

Stay away from that crap. You know better!

Quote from: mcbobbo;705770I feel like I misunderstood something.  So PHB1 has all the rules for the core classes, adjudication,  skills, whatnot and the others are splat?

I was under the impression that one book was martial and one casting, or some other whatnot.

Essentially, yes. PHB1 has the actual rules (combat, movement, etc) along with a number of classes and races.

PHBs 2/3, names aside, contain races/classes/magic items and some random 'expansion' rules (backgrounds, a new way of multiclassing, etc). You cannot play the game based exclusively on either of them; they don't, for example, have combat rules in them.

Get the Premium Edition Silver 4E PHB, GMG & MM, they have the errata and misprints taken care of in them for the Hardcovers, look around sometimes you can get them cheap.  Essentials your best off with 1) Heroes of the Fallen Lands, 2) Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, 3) The Monster Vault and 4) the Dungeon Masters Kit (not required but great for the extras in the box) or get the Compendium, either for the Treasure/Rewards in them but the DM book has Magic items.

Essentials is easier for character creation, little less drawn out but compatible with the full version if you mix the two.  There are major differences between Monster Manual vs. the Monster Vault, especially with HP's, the MM original has higher HP counts, than does the Monster Vault and some stat differences.  Otherwise not all that different, they both play the same.

I don't play anymore, it's all gathering dust now.  Looking to sell it all off, I just went back to playing AD&D.

Quote from: flyingcircus;705835Get the Premium Edition Silver 4E PHB, GMG & MM, they have the errata and misprints taken care of in them for the Hardcovers, look around sometimes you can get them cheap.  

The Premium PHB has the most essential errata in it (Stealth, in particular) but the Premium DMG doesn't (Skill Challenge DCs, in particular).

FWIW, the PHB2 and DMG2 include all of the most essential errata also for the PHB and DMG.

Whatever you do stay away from the Essentials Red Box. It's Crippleware at its worst.

Quote from: TristramEvans;705877Whatever you do stay away from the Essentials Red Box. It's Crippleware at its worst.

This! Totally agree, don't get the 4E Red Box as your entrance to 4E. I bought it for nostalgia and we were playing 4E at the time... it is a lame intro for anyone that has ever played any RPG.

I like Essentials, I thought it was more streamlined than the 4E original books. After running a high level campaign with 4E v1 I wanted to slam my head into a wall. We spent hours for each combat with 6 PCs.

I vote "Heroes of the Fallen Lands" first and DMG.

But definitely.... The Monster Vault and Nentir Vale Monster Vault were IMHO far superior to the first 3(?) 4E monster manuals (I only have 2).

Quote from: Spinachcat;705662I am a D&D 4e fan and my suggestion is to either buy the Gamma World boxed set or 13th Age - both are much better iterations of the 4e concepts.

Interesting, why do you say that? Given even I think PHB1 was a great intro book to 4e. Even though I think 4e is crap. Personally I hope I can use 5e either as a rules lite 3e/FantasyCraft  or a 2e with 3e custumization. Achieve this and I am in.

Quote from: Marleycat;705939Interesting, why do you say that?

Presumably as they both are refinements of 4e's system.

Quote from: Skywalker;705944Presumably as they both are refinements of 4e's system.

I assume so but in what way? Gridless? More flexibility in the ADEU system? Or the magic system itself? Or does it quit trying to make everyone run said scheme?

Quote from: TristramEvans;705877Whatever you do stay away from the Essentials Red Box. It's Crippleware at its worst.

Just toss out all the crap inside, and you get a really nice sturdy box (much nicer than the old red box) and a set of dice for $20.00. Put your original D&D materials inside and you are good to go.