And (I just learned that) the reason the FTL tech doesn't apply to communication is because it actually shortens distances rather than increases speed. It (if I understand correctly) scrunches spacetime ahead of the craft.

I think the CrImp is backed by the power of the fleet, to say that if one world started counterfeiting them, a squadron of Imperial Dreadnaughts appearing in system will convince them of the error of their ways. The "feudalism", which is actually derived from H. Beam Piper's 'Space Viking', is imo, over-played in the imperium; with the actual size of the imperium of 11,000 worlds or so, can encompass just about any economic scheme. While business thrives on timely information, I still think that most transactions will be in-system, rather than interstellar, and if they are interstellar, it will be rather one sided such as a mercantilist homeworld/colony paradigm.

Adventures being who they are, I would expect them to get that "your credits are no good here" result pretty often. They're going to buy/sell and leave, leaving you holding the bag.

Now if the currency were, say, gold-pressed latinum, well who cares where you got it, and no I don't want you to sign anything...

Up until the rebellion, the credit probably remains a pretty solid currency, then after, it is a free for all as the credit collapses. The game never delves into this, afaik, but it also is low on playability as well.

In the Core the vast population worlds work just fine, they have such vast critical mass. But the fragmented nature of the OTU means that there are many local currencies, and most people don't use Imperial credits, 'cos most people don't ever leave home.

Quote from: mcbobbo;695349I suppose the biggest reason I wanted to know was more along the lines of what might be possible in the setting.  Earth's age of sail was very much driven by precious metals. An Italian coin could be restruck, for example, so always carried some value.  The wife is confident they used letters of credit then as well, but I am less convinced.  Wikipedia doesn't seem to think those pages need "history" sections, and I don't personally know any experts on it.  I know individual establishments certainly ran tabs, accounts, etc, but at what point were those assets transferable?

(raises his hand)

What makes you "less convinced" that international banking used letters of credit in the Age of Sail?  Letters of credit and bills of exchange existed in the freaking twelfth century.  I know we have this modern prejudice that international banking was a product of the 18th century or so, but sophisticated systems and instruments were in place nearly a thousand years ago.

Quote from: Ravenswing;695552(raises his hand)

What makes you "less convinced" that international banking used letters of credit in the Age of Sail?  Letters of credit and bills of exchange existed in the freaking twelfth century.  I know we have this modern prejudice that international banking was a product of the 18th century or so, but sophisticated systems and instruments were in place nearly a thousand years ago.

Ah yes, I forgot those tales of pirate booty involving travelers cheques, El Dorado the lost city of interest rates, etc, etc, etc

Interestingly, lack of faith in the credit is associated with the collapse of the Second Imperium:

QuoteThe -1776 date for the end of the Rule of Man is arbitrary, and it notes the financial collapse of the central government, which occurred when the Treasury at Hub/Ershur refused to honor a monetary issue of the branch treasury at Antares. The resulting lack of confidence within monetary circles marked the end of large-scale interstellar trade and of effective governmental power within the Rule of Man. Although the Imperium did not completely fall apart for many years, the Rule of Man had effectively ceased to exist as a viable interstellar community, and the period known as Twilight had begun.

Quote from: Garnfellow;695685Interestingly, lack of faith in the credit is associated with the collapse of the Second Imperium:

Sweet!  Okay, so that would imply a certain heresy in not trusting it.

Real question, though - what's your source and how do I plug in to that?

Quote from: mcbobbo;695706Sweet!  Okay, so that would imply a certain heresy in not trusting it.

Real question, though - what's your source and how do I plug in to that?

I pulled it from the Traveller Wiki, which should be your best friend next to the Traveller Map. But the wiki's source is Supplement 11, Library Data.

Great fiction on the history of modern banking concepts (a fine adventure too) by Neal Stephenson: The Baroque Cycle.

But back to that definition of the value of a credit: The cost of moving 1 gram of cargo through 1 jump? Nothing could be more variable, surely? The cost of moving cargo has to range all over the show based on the volume of the ship (unlike the energy expended to heat 1 gram of water by 1 degree celsius -- which is what the definition sounds like). Even the definition of the calorie goes on to specify pressure as a codicil.

And what is the cost measured in? It's a self-referential definition. Even if you measured the actual theoretical cost in ergs of shifting any mass (is it based on weight or volume -- a gram of lead is much smaller than a gram of pepper), the cost of producing energy varies widely based on the technology used.

I would agree with the initial supposition that whether they had a central bank or not, the issue of currency and exchange rates would be a huge problem for the Imperium. Locally it would function as it does here on earth, but interstellar flight would allow clever captains to make an absolute killing on new technology developments in one sector before they became widespread.

It's the same problem they had when Columbus discovered the Americas and brought back all that silver. Silver in and of itself has no monetary value. It is a medium of exchange. If you double the quantity of silver in a system you do not double the wealth, you halve the value of the silver that was already there. The wealth stays about the same -- with the possible exception of the silver smiths who now have cheaper metal to make jewelry out of, and thus actually get richer, because what they are really selling is the the value add of their skill, which they can now spread farther because the medium costs less. But the first dozen or so ships to sail into Cadiz loaded down with silver made everyone think they'd doubled their money. It took years for the values to readjust to reflect the new relative availability of the precious metal.

Just my $.02

The problem with your scenario, Teagan, is that it's 20:20 hindsight.  Indeed, there've folks who've spread advanced technology to new areas who made out like bandits.  There've also been a lot of folks who lost their shirts trying ... where the technology didn't work as well as advertised, where it was too expensive to catch on, where it was quickly supplanted by something even newer, where the locals were just too resistant to change, where the entrepreneur wasn't a good enough businessman to make the effort work, where ruthless rivals trumped them, where governments shut them down.

Quote from: teagan;695714I would agree with the initial supposition that whether they had a central bank or not, the issue of currency and exchange rates would be a huge problem for the Imperium. Locally it would function as it does here on earth, but interstellar flight would allow clever captains to make an absolute killing on new technology developments in one sector before they became widespread.

An alien touches down with a hold full of inexplicable technology vastly in advance of anything you can produce. You are the ruler of that world. Do you....

A) Bid him welcome and invite him to sell his goods to the highest bidder, including your rivals.
B) Allow him to sell select, comprehensible portions of his goods to the general public, regardless of the enormous disruption it will cause in your local economy and current power structure.
C) Inform him that he's going to get X local credits for his wares, which he will sell to you exclusively, and if he doesn't like it you really don't mind if he never comes back.
D) Kill him with your 1,000,000-to-1 advantage in numbers, take his stuff, and use it to entrench your rule.

The alternative that results in the merchant becoming fabulously wealthy is, one would surmise, the least likely to happen. Unless there's a real physical danger in abusing merchants, most planetary rulers have very few downsides to screwing them over. Which means merchants have to convince the locals that it's really in their advantage to play nice, and such efforts need not always bear fruit.

Quote from: estar;695409It takes a minimum of a week to travel between systems and there is a minimum size on Jump capable ships. so no Jump Torpedoes to automate the process.

The big problems doesn't show up until you get beyond your subsector 8 parsec by 10 parsecs. It take over a year to cross the Imperium from one side to the other.

Yeah but check it out, that's the time it would take to get from England to Australia circa 1800, and the pound still held its value in the prison colonies.

Actually I see a huge untapped potential for adventure here, high frequency traders made a killing by being seven thousandths of a second ahead of the Fed's announcements recently, probably illegally - imagine the fortunes to be made by being able to delay financial news by an hour, or a day - interstellar corporations could rise and fall overnight on such information.

The possibilities for espionage, dirty dealing, and skullduggery at every level from the street to the board room is immense. Gain a minute, hell gain a second on the newsboat in some backwater system and you could multiply your wealth tenfold. Of course the empire would probably take countermeasures by sending out unmarked ships secretly to release information to several parsecs simultaneously, among other things, which only opens more vistas of clandestine goings on.

I dunno, maybe I'm talking out my ass, I'm not overly familiar with the setting. But it feels interesting - I'm tinkering with a setting based on Alastair Reynolds' slower than light space milieu and economics get truly messed up when it takes centuries to travel between stars. A year isn't much to worry about.

Quote from: The Traveller;695823Actually I see a huge untapped potential for adventure here, high frequency traders made a killing by being seven thousandths of a second ahead of the Fed's announcements recently, probably illegally - imagine the fortunes to be made by being able to delay financial news by an hour, or a day - interstellar corporations could rise and fall overnight on such information.

The possibilities for espionage, dirty dealing, and skullduggery at every level from the street to the board room is immense. Gain a minute, hell gain a second on the newsboat in some backwater system and you could multiply your wealth tenfold. Of course the empire would probably take countermeasures by sending out unmarked ships secretly to release information to several parsecs simultaneously, among other things, which only opens more vistas of clandestine goings on.

See this bolded stuff? Pay Attention To It!

   

Quote from: The Traveller;695823I dunno, maybe I'm talking out my ass, I'm not overly familiar with the setting. But it feels interesting - I'm tinkering with a setting based on Alastair Reynolds' slower than light space milieu and economics get truly messed up when it takes centuries to travel between stars. A year isn't much to worry about.

You are not talking out of your ass. You have hit upon a core element of adventuring in Traveller.