This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

[Moldvay] Spells and Elves

Started by flyerfan1991, September 30, 2013, 09:54:38 AM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages1 2 3
User actions

flyerfan1991

September 30, 2013, 09:54:38 AM
In preparation for running a Moldvay campaign for the kids, I was perusing the rules and discovered something interesting.  

Way back when, we'd always played that in order to cast M-U spells you needed to be in cloth armor --nothing else allowed.  However, it seems that Moldvay doesn't have that rule restriction for Elves, although it is in place for M-U's.  I went over and checked the Moldvay Expert Set, but nothing there either.  Finally, I checked the AD&D 1e PH, and while there's a restriction for Elves for Thieving multi-classing (page 16), there's nothing explicit about Elves and Armor with M-U multiclassing there.

Am I reading this wrong, or did we interpret the rules wrong way back when?

thedungeondelver

#1
September 30, 2013, 09:55:44 AM
Elves can cast while wearing armor.
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

flyerfan1991

#2
September 30, 2013, 09:57:35 AM
Quote from: thedungeondelver;695347Elves can cast while wearing armor.

Damn.

We always avoided the Elves mainly because they seemed weaker than the other classes --who'd want to wield a sword and wear cloth armor because they wanted to cast spells-- but now I can see how much more powerful they are.

Exploderwizard

#3
September 30, 2013, 10:03:04 AM
Quote from: flyerfan1991;695350Damn.

We always avoided the Elves mainly because they seemed weaker than the other classes --who'd want to wield a sword and wear cloth armor because they wanted to cast spells-- but now I can see how much more powerful they are.

They are a powerful class but it does take 4000 XP to reach 2nd level. A thief or cleric will be 3rd level before the elf hits 2nd.

Spending that much time at 1st level with a single d6 hit point pool means that every elf level 2 or higher is very lucky.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

flyerfan1991

#4
September 30, 2013, 10:38:56 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;695352They are a powerful class but it does take 4000 XP to reach 2nd level. A thief or cleric will be 3rd level before the elf hits 2nd.

Spending that much time at 1st level with a single d6 hit point pool means that every elf level 2 or higher is very lucky.

I'd consider the Elf and the M-U getting to 2nd level about equal in luck, because at least the Elf has metal armor and d6 HP dice.  The M-U with cloth armor and d4 HP dice --and 2500 xp to 2nd level-- is also very hamstrung at the beginning.

To shift gears, does that mean that in 1e an Elf could wear armor and cast M-U spells too?

K Peterson

#5
September 30, 2013, 11:10:33 AM
What is cloth armor? Is that the same as clothing, or does it provide an AC bonus? Moldvay magic-users can't wear any armor.

From memory: in 1e, you have the race and class split - with class imposing restrictions. It didn't matter what race you were; a magic-user class determined what you could wear and wield. Your race just gave you special abilities or capped your max level in a class.

Exploderwizard

#6
September 30, 2013, 11:10:44 AM
Quote from: flyerfan1991;695362To shift gears, does that mean that in 1e an Elf could wear armor and cast M-U spells too?

If the elf was multiclassed and the other class could wear armor then yes.

In the rules for dual classed (human) characters it is mentioned that the ability to cast spells while armor clad,such as an elven F/MU can do isn't permitted.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

flyerfan1991

#7
September 30, 2013, 11:40:34 AM
Quote from: K Peterson;695373What is cloth armor? Is that the same as clothing, or does it provide an AC bonus? Moldvay magic-users can't wear any armor.

From memory: in 1e, you have the race and class split - with class imposing restrictions. It didn't matter what race you were; a magic-user class determined what you could wear and wield. Your race just gave you special abilities or capped your max level in a class.

"Cloth armor" = bad habits when referring to robes and crap like that.  I still think AC 10 with them.

Yeah, that was what I'd been using all along, but apparently that's not the case.

flyerfan1991

#8
September 30, 2013, 11:42:25 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;695374If the elf was multiclassed and the other class could wear armor then yes.

In the rules for dual classed (human) characters it is mentioned that the ability to cast spells while armor clad,such as an elven F/MU can do isn't permitted.

Wow.  Oh well, I guess we were interpreting the rules wrong.

Exploderwizard

#9
September 30, 2013, 12:03:31 PM
Quote from: flyerfan1991;695382Wow.  Oh well, I guess we were interpreting the rules wrong.

Once you realize how much they can do, the level limits make a bit more sense.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Silverlion

#10
September 30, 2013, 05:53:29 PM
Yep. They can cast in armor. Its pretty powerful bonus, allowing them to be "middle of the line" able casters rather than "protect if you want sweet sweet spellcasting."
High Valor REVISED: A fantasy Dark Age RPG. Available NOW!
Hearts & Souls 2E Coming in 2019

The Ent

#11
October 01, 2013, 04:31:20 AM
1e was a bit odd when it came to casting in armor.

Elf and Half-Elf multiclass M-Us can cast while armored (in any armor). Gnome multiclass Illusionists can only use leather armor. Dual-classed human M-Us or Illusionists can't wear any armor at all when casting.

flyerfan1991

#12
October 01, 2013, 09:22:27 AM
Quote from: The Ent;6956501e was a bit odd when it came to casting in armor.

Elf and Half-Elf multiclass M-Us can cast while armored (in any armor). Gnome multiclass Illusionists can only use leather armor. Dual-classed human M-Us or Illusionists can't wear any armor at all when casting.

Yeah, and when we looked for consistency, we considered that the class rules for M-Us trumped anything from the racial area, just like we figured that the class rule for M-Us in Moldvay trumped Fighters.  For some reason, the "race as class" uniqueness was missed by us.

Exploderwizard

#13
October 01, 2013, 09:29:09 AM
Quote from: flyerfan1991;695672Yeah, and when we looked for consistency, we considered that the class rules for M-Us trumped anything from the racial area, just like we figured that the class rule for M-Us in Moldvay trumped Fighters.  For some reason, the "race as class" uniqueness was missed by us.

Elves are so awesome because at level 10 you get to be a Superhero Necromancer. Who else besides Dr. Orpheus gets to be that! :)
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

K Peterson

#14
October 01, 2013, 11:04:28 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;695673Elves are so awesome because at level 10 you get to be a Superhero Necromancer. Who else besides Dr. Orpheus gets to be that! :)
8th level, chief. At least if you're going by the Expert rules. 10th level elves are Wizard/Lord.
Print
Go Up Pages1 2 3
User actions