[D&D Next] Last playtest packet today

Sacrosanct · September 25, 2013, 03:41:56 PM

Quote from: apparition13;693746No, we aren't.

Well, maybe you houserule it then. But it has been very explicit in early editions that that is the case, and heavily implied if not directly stated in others as well.

RandallS · September 25, 2013, 04:04:10 PM

Quote from: Old One Eye;693731"Damn, my halberd blow missed but I still deal 3 damage. Your turn bard."

Being bothered by that is persnikety as hell.

It's not a persnikety distinction (IMHO) if the halberd is coated with poison that required a save vs death on if even a point of damage is taken. With a standard miss (no damage), the halberd wielder has to successful hit to poison the target. With this "no damage even when you miss" system, all the halberd wielder has to do is say he is attacking target X to cause target X to be poisoned. Nor is it a persnikety distinction if the halberd has some magical effect that taken effect if the target takes damage from the halberd. Etc.

JonWake · September 25, 2013, 04:39:31 PM

Quote from: RandallS;694007It's not a persnikety distinction (IMHO) if the halberd is coated with poison that required a save vs death on if even a point of damage is taken. With a standard miss (no damage), the halberd wielder has to successful hit to poison the target. With this "no damage even when you miss" system, all the halberd wielder has to do is say he is attacking target X to cause target X to be poisoned. Nor is it a persnikety distinction if the halberd has some magical effect that taken effect if the target takes damage from the halberd. Etc.

Poison is triggered on a hit that causes damage. Problem solved.

Bill · September 25, 2013, 04:41:51 PM

The Halbeard doing damage on a miss might be defined as : "You inflicted minimal damage to the enemy in a less than optimal manner while wielding a poisoned Halbeard"

RandallS · September 25, 2013, 05:58:12 PM

Quote from: JonWake;694016Poison is triggered on a hit that causes damage. Problem solved.

As long as you don't mind tossed verisimilitude out the window in favor of whatever the rules say, I guess that would solve the problem. However, it would not for me as I'd want to know how that halberd causes 2 or 3 points of damage without getting the poison into the wound. I suppose you could claim that it was a hit with the flat of the blad so no poison got into the target's system. Of course, this probably would not work as a "how this happened" explanation if the cause of the "death effect" on damage was magic instead of poison.

JonWake · September 25, 2013, 06:03:27 PM

Quote from: RandallS;694038As long as you don't mind tossed verisimilitude out the window in favor of whatever the rules say, I guess that would solve the problem. However, it would not for me as I'd want to know how that halberd causes 2 or 3 points of damage without getting the poison into the wound. I suppose you could claim that it was a hit with the flat of the blad so no poison got into the target's system. Of course, this probably would not work as a "how this happened" explanation if the cause of the "death effect" on damage was magic instead of poison.

Or not. Whatever. Doesn't bother me. But then, neither do HPs. Or levels. Or the entirety of human skill described as a dozen catchall names with a mysterious amount of overlap. But I guess I'll just have to toss verisimilitude out that window. Hope it bounces.

JRR · September 25, 2013, 06:05:22 PM

So, by the rules, I can sit on my couch at home, and swing my two handed sword until Sauron in his castle 1,000 leagues away dies from it?

JonWake · September 25, 2013, 06:09:27 PM

Quote from: jrr;694042so, by the rules, i can sit on my couch at home, and swing my two handed sword until sauron in his castle 1,000 leagues away dies from it?

obviously.

Sacrosanct · September 25, 2013, 06:31:08 PM

Quote from: RandallS;694038As long as you don't mind tossed verisimilitude out the window in favor of whatever the rules say, I guess that would solve the problem. However, it would not for me as I'd want to know how that halberd causes 2 or 3 points of damage without getting the poison into the wound. I suppose you could claim that it was a hit with the flat of the blad so no poison got into the target's system. Of course, this probably would not work as a "how this happened" explanation if the cause of the "death effect" on damage was magic instead of poison.

I would explain it the same way I did earlier. Because the weapon is so big, it can cause hp loss even if you manage to block it with a shield or armor.

Imp · September 25, 2013, 06:38:53 PM

This is hairsplitting, and it doesn't solve the general case, but: it's a halberd, so 1) poisoning a halberd is nearly as farcical as poisoning a morningstar, so 2) given that the business end has at least 4 points and probably 4 edges as well it's easy to posit that one of those parts wasn't poisoned, and that's the part that hit, and also 3) it's a relatively short pole weapon – smacking the guy with the butt end in preparation for bringing down the murdering end was a tactic, and something I frequently describe happening when someone gets non-fatally hit by a halberd or similar.

Mistwell · September 25, 2013, 06:46:34 PM

Quote from: RandallS;694038As long as you don't mind tossed verisimilitude out the window ...

I toss it out the window every chance I get. It's a pretentious word frequently used by didactic people who wank off to rules all day rather than actually playing the game.

In my experience, people who actually play tend to say things like "that doesn't feel real enough" or "that doesn't seem plausible" or "it seems kinda fake" or "I don't know how believable I find that to be" or, you know, anything else that a normal person not trying to be a pedantic twat might say in conversation.

But that's just me

Old One Eye · September 25, 2013, 07:01:43 PM

Quote from: RandallS;694038As long as you don't mind tossed verisimilitude out the window in favor of whatever the rules say, I guess that would solve the problem. However, it would not for me as I'd want to know how that halberd causes 2 or 3 points of damage without getting the poison into the wound. I suppose you could claim that it was a hit with the flat of the blad so no poison got into the target's system. Of course, this probably would not work as a "how this happened" explanation if the cause of the "death effect" on damage was magic instead of poison.

I have twice in my life been bitten by poisonous snakes, leaving behind two puncture wounds, without having any venomous effect whatsoever. Verisimilitude is more harmed by poisoned weapons that always work as advertised than by what you are concerned with.

deadDMwalking · September 25, 2013, 07:31:09 PM

Quote from: Old One Eye;694060I have twice in my life been bitten by poisonous snakes, leaving behind two puncture wounds, without having any venomous effect whatsoever. Verisimilitude is more harmed by poisoned weapons that always work as advertised than by what you are concerned with.

And I've been bitten by poisonous snakes twice in my life and I died both times!

I forgot what my point was, but it's probably that anecdotes (while interesting) are often not reflective of common experience.

I mean, the whole fact that most venomous snakes are unwilling to waste their venom on a creature too large to eat (assuming they know better - which most non-junvenile snakes seem to) calls into question - how do poisoned blades work?

I think it's one of those things that D&D has decided works like Hamlet, not like real life.

Old One Eye · September 25, 2013, 07:48:47 PM

Quote from: deadDMwalking;694067calls into question - how do poisoned blades work?

Clearly only on a successful attack, not any old time an attack deals damage.

JRR · September 25, 2013, 09:37:06 PM

Quote from: JonWake;694043obviously.

Don't be a smartass. It doesn't matter that no dm would ever let that happen, that's no excuse for shoddy rules writing.

"When you miss a target with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, the target still takes damage from the weapon. The damage equals your Strength modifier. The weapon must have the two-*‐handed or versatile property to gain this benefit."

There is no range requirement for this. It's shitty work, typical for WOTC.