I have been using games like Labyrinth Lord or Swords & Wizardry Complete to teach the basics for entry level gamer's, that want a taste for D&D but have never played a fantasy game RPG before before I move them up the ladder to something with more KICK (teeth-meaning complexity), if they ask for it.  I've used games like Mystery Men, MARVEL (TSR), BESM 2E or Thousand Suns for those who want to play something non-fantasy related and never played a rpg before.

Quote from: Tetsubo;691933What would you say to a new player to sell them on the idea of playing a OSR game?

Are you trolling us?

Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;692313There's no reason a newbie shouldn't go through the same process, and give the "old school" a try so they know why 3E was necessary, and move on....

:rotfl:

Yet another option hardly qualifies as necessary.

3E is never necessary

Quote from: estar;692184The OSR has several games where you can attempt anything that your character can do using mechanics that are simple to play and to setup yet have enough detail for many sessions of play.

Unlike computer games or board games these OSR games, like all tabletop roleplaying games, feature the ability for the player to attempt anything that their character can do within the setting. With their actions adjudicated by a human referee who uses the player's input, the rules and his adventure notes to make his ruling.

Most RPGs released by the OSR community revolve around the fantasy genre. They feature mechanics that have been played and supported since the release of the first roleplaying game in the mid 70s.

Most fantasy OSR games defines characters in terms of six attributes, a class defining that character's profession, and their equipment both mundane and magical. Characters are quickly generated with many folks ready in 15 to 30 minutes.

For the novice referee the most straight forward setup is to draw a small town with a few shops. Then just outside of the town in a out of the way place place a dungeon. The dungeon consists of a maze with rooms. The rooms are either occupied by monsters, have traps, have treasures, something unusual, or any combination of the proceeding. It is recommended that you have a few empty rooms or long passageway to spread out the occupied areas.

A dungeon can be setup "realistically" with various rooms occupied logically by those who inhabit that area. It could be setup as funhouse where anything and everything can be found in the various rooms. Often justified as the work of a mad archmage or wizard. Or any combination between.

Dungeons are organized into levels where the deeper you go the more difficult the creatures, and traps are. But the treasure is also correspondingly more rewarding. Within each levels you can have areas of related inhabitants. You can also setup these areas as competing factions for the players to learn about and take advantage of.

The prime role of the players during the game is to act as if their character sare really there. To listen to your description, respond to your NPCs, and act accordingly. Some players will act out a different personae while other will essentially be "themselves". Either method or anything between will work the only requirement is to interact with the setting you created as if they are there.

The various fantasy games produced by OSR support this mode of play very well due to the legacy of the mechanics they inherited from the first roleplaying game ever made. However the dungeon is not the only type of adventure possible with these game. The mechanics are flexible enough to support just about any type of adventure you can imagine those character are capable of doing.

There is a wealth of supplements and adventures to draw on for when your time or imagination is in short supply. Also many of these products expand the type of possible characters and give further support to specific types of adventures.

Many of these products are free both in terms of cost and creativity. Much of the OSR is bluit on the ideals of open gaming where the only thing asked of folks using their materials is to in return share what they created under the same term. This is regardless whether the work is just for fun, non-commercial, or commercial.

So what you're saying is the OSR is all D&D all the time?

That has pretty much guaranteed I'll never play an OSR game.

Quote from: The Traveller;692420So what you're saying is the OSR is all D&D all the time?

That has pretty much guaranteed I'll never play an OSR game.

Only a certain group thinks that way. Overall, the osr includes many games and systems. People will argue semantics, but its all part of the same movement.

Personally I miss when it was just a movement, and nobody sat around talking about it. Our culture has become too self-referential.

The D&D-centrism comes from that being the game with a fandom that was identifying a prominent internal "New School" to react against.

Quote from: The Traveller;692420So what you're saying is the OSR is all D&D all the time?

That has pretty much guaranteed I'll never play an OSR game.

I have kind of been convinced that Vampire: the Masquerade is an OSR game so I might not be a good opinion to poll.

Quote from: Tetsubo;691933What would you say to a new player to sell them on the idea of playing a OSR game?

I'd tell them to roll 3d6 and assign them in order to their character's six primary stats.

Seriously, you can blather on for hours about stuff, or you can just have them play. I find that those who've been through D&D4e and stacks of computer games don't get it, however much you explain or play.

Those who've never done anything related before get it straight away.

Quote from: The Traveller;692420So what you're saying is the OSR is all D&D all the time?

That has pretty much guaranteed I'll never play an OSR game.

Yes the OSR (all caps) is a group of people publishing, playing, or promoting classic editions of D&D or games with similar mechanics (but not always the same genres i.e. Star with Numbers, etc)

The osr (all small letters) is about older games or newer games adopting older designs and/or styles.

So if you don't like classic D&D mechanics then the OSR (all caps) is not likely to interest you. However be aware OSR is not a monolithic block of gamers delving dungeons and hack-n-slash campaigns. There is a huge variety of material to be found. Myself my stuff revolves around the adventure to be found in the clash of politics, religions, and cultures.  Other have their own take.

As far as my post goes that what I would recommend to a absolute novice who want to run classic D&D for the first time. Making a dungeon maze is the most straight forward adventure format there is and most of the original and retro-clone rule books have a tone of advice and material for how to set them up.

The OSR started out as D&D clones, obviously with the OGL opening the floodgates, but aren't there clones now for Runequest, Tunnels and Trolls (Tunnelquest) and other games? Heck there's even one for Golden Heroes thanks to the prolific Black the Blackball (he of Dark Dungeons fame, perhaps the most epic undertaking of the OSR movement, though OSRIC could argue that too).

It all adds up to more choice, and that is good in some ways, not so in others ("are we playing Basic Fantasy tonight? No, lets play Dark Dungeons. What about Labyrinth Lord? Actually I fancy OSRIC tonight. Hey here's an idea, why don't we play AD&D? *silence* Which version? Isn't there a 2e clone now? How about White Box? That's not AD&D it's OD&D..." Cue arguments.)

For the most part I applaud the efforts of writers but have only played Labyrinth Lord in the last few years. If I were to gather a dedicated online group for a PBEM I would push Dark Dungeons. 1-36 and beyond. Job done.

Quote from: estar;692758Yes the OSR (all caps) is a group of people publishing, playing, or promoting classic editions of D&D or games with similar mechanics (but not always the same genres i.e. Star with Numbers, etc)

The osr (all small letters) is about older games or newer games adopting older designs and/or styles.

I see you pushing that definition/differentiation but I don't think it's really on the radar of most folks and capitalization seems a weak landmark to declare which road you're on.
Not that 'OSR' has any meaning at all to most of the guys I play with... none of whom seem to ever visit gaming forums.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;692683I'd tell them to roll 3d6 and assign them in order to their character's six primary stats.

Seriously, you can blather on for hours about stuff, or you can just have them play. I find that those who've been through D&D4e and stacks of computer games don't get it, however much you explain or play.

Those who've never done anything related before get it straight away.

I have run into this too. Those with no table top gaming experience seem to get OD&D and its relations very quickly. I also find that they dont get fucked up about class roles, they just try whatever they think makes sense.

Quote from: flyingcircus;692319Are you trolling us?

I am attempting to understand why people like the OSR category of games.

Quote from: Tetsubo;692946I am attempting to understand why people like the OSR category of games.

Then ask that.

I would never try to sell a random faceless hypothetical newbie on any game without knowing them.

I think, for many of your dumber gamers, the untested assumption that their game is somehow better for "most people" or "new gamers" or "as-yet untapped demographics" is just sort of a fall-back position they adopt when they realize "My game is objectively the best" won't fly on the internet.

I would no more try to sell someone on a game than sell them on a shoe size.