I don't think just focusing on "quick and easy" really answers the question. There a lot of non OSR games, both new and old, that are just as quick and easy, possibly more so. The choice of an OSR style game implies a lot more, things we are perhaps taken for granted here.

In fact this assertion only really holds because so many of us are deeply familiar with D&D in one from or another it has become second nature. But from the outside, even in it's classic TSR incarnations, there is a lot of fiddly lore and exceptions to pick up. You have to learn that Clerics can wear armour and turn undead but can only use blunt weapons or that a gorgon isn't what you might think it is. And who the hell is Rod and why do I need to be saved from him?

So if you want to sell an OSR game to a newbie the challenge to describe experience and values of old style D&D, that is assuming I've got this week's definition of OSR right.

Agreed, Soylent Green, and sigged.

Quote from: Maltese Changeling;692029Agreed, Soylent Green, and sigged.

Thanks! I've not been "sigged" in a while. It's always nice when it happens.

Quote from: Soylent Green;692019I don't think just focusing on "quick and easy" really answers the question. There a lot of non OSR games, both new and old, that are just as quick and easy, possibly more so. The choice of an OSR style game implies a lot more, things we are perhaps taken for granted here.

The original question was "Sell a newb on OSR", which people answered based on that.
There may well be simpler and quicker systems out there, but overall, it would be hard to find one that has all the attributes laid out by people, especially the huge amount of free material out there.

Quote from: Soylent Green;692019In fact this assertion only really holds because so many of us are deeply familiar with D&D in one from or another it has become second nature. But from the outside, even in it's classic TSR incarnations, there is a lot of fiddly lore and exceptions to pick up. You have to learn that Clerics can wear armour and turn undead but can only use blunt weapons or that a gorgon isn't what you might think it is. And who the hell is Rod and why do I need to be saved from him?
So if you want to sell an OSR game to a newbie the challenge to describe experience and values of old style D&D, that is assuming I've got this week's definition of OSR right.

OSR doesn't necessarily mean DnD clerics with whatever exceptions rules that have and really the classes in OSR that are used by various games are normally pretty basic.
That's the advantage of OSR.
If you have a pure skill based system, it's easy to end up with a gimped character or you get bogged down in character gen.
Often with OSR games the character gen takes maybe 10 minutes to generate a character as its 90% done for you really.

I think generally you're focusing too much on DnD itself, OSR has a much wider meaning.
OSR means "Old School Renaissance" not necessarily DnD clone, but a lot of it will be similar enough to use the old DnD material.

I think OSR doesn't even necessarily mean DnD compatible at all, although for the purposes of this thread, that's what most of us are getting at.

"You don't have to learn any rules."

Quote from: Tetsubo;691933What would you say to a new player to sell them on the idea of playing a OSR game?

Especially if new player means someone who's new to the RPG scene, why would I want to try selling "the idea of playing an OSR game"? Makes a lot more sense to me actually to invite 'em to come play, than to explain some geeky internet subculture jargon.

I've got no stake in hoodwinking anyone into something they won't enjoy, so the question is why I think Friend X would get a kick out of playing a swordsman or sorceress, exploring fantastic realms, taking wondrous treasures from malevolent monsters, and so on. That depends on the person in question.

In some cases the clones/neo clones/inspired by games are easier to play and read than the originals, they are easier to get hold of instead of paying silly ebay prices and you can pretty much read one and you get the whole gist of D&D or whatever game they emulate, even though you aren't actually playing D&D or Runequest or whatever. (But you are, just not in name.)

Biggest sell is that most are free.

Quote from: TristramEvans;692092"You don't have to learn any rules."

Just so. I didn't learn any rules the first time I played.

Quote from: Tetsubo;691933What would you say to a new player to sell them on the idea of playing a OSR game?

If they're not hooked on new-school high-crunch games then I wouldn't say anything about OSR and how it differs from 3e/4e/Pathfinder et al. I think "Let's play D&D" followed by quick chargen and a not overly deadly starting adventure would work. I probably would do a few things to alleviate the extreme lethality of pre-AD&D; max hp at 1st level (unless it's a large group), death at -10 hp (better than death at 0 hp and easy Raise IMO), best 3 of 4d6 instead of 3d6 in order. I'd encourage them to play a Fighter type since Vancian casting is weird and unintuitive, or a Thief with heavy use of bonuses to the % checks.

Quote from: Phillip;692123Especially if new player means someone who's new to the RPG scene, why would I want to try selling "the idea of playing an OSR game"? Makes a lot more sense to me actually to invite 'em to come play, than to explain some geeky internet subculture jargon.

I've got no stake in hoodwinking anyone into something they won't enjoy, so the question is why I think Friend X would get a kick out of playing a swordsman or sorceress, exploring fantastic realms, taking wondrous treasures from malevolent monsters, and so on. That depends on the person in question.

The OSR has several games where you can attempt anything that your character can do using mechanics that are simple to play and to setup yet have enough detail for many sessions of play.

Unlike computer games or board games these OSR games, like all tabletop roleplaying games, feature the ability for the player to attempt anything that their character can do within the setting. With their actions adjudicated by a human referee who uses the player's input, the rules and his adventure notes to make his ruling.

Most RPGs released by the OSR community revolve around the fantasy genre. They feature mechanics that have been played and supported since the release of the first roleplaying game in the mid 70s.

Most fantasy OSR games defines characters in terms of six attributes, a class defining that character's profession, and their equipment both mundane and magical. Characters are quickly generated with many folks ready in 15 to 30 minutes.

For the novice referee the most straight forward setup is to draw a small town with a few shops. Then just outside of the town in a out of the way place place a dungeon. The dungeon consists of a maze with rooms. The rooms are either occupied by monsters, have traps, have treasures, something unusual, or any combination of the proceeding. It is recommended that you have a few empty rooms or long passageway to spread out the occupied areas.

A dungeon can be setup "realistically" with various rooms occupied logically by those who inhabit that area. It could be setup as funhouse where anything and everything can be found in the various rooms. Often justified as the work of a mad archmage or wizard. Or any combination between.

Dungeons are organized into levels where the deeper you go the more difficult the creatures, and traps are. But the treasure is also correspondingly more rewarding. Within each levels you can have areas of related inhabitants. You can also setup these areas as competing factions for the players to learn about and take advantage of.

The prime role of the players during the game is to act as if their character sare really there. To listen to your description, respond to your NPCs, and act accordingly. Some players will act out a different personae while other will essentially be "themselves". Either method or anything between will work the only requirement is to interact with the setting you created as if they are there.

The various fantasy games produced by OSR support this mode of play very well due to the legacy of the mechanics they inherited from the first roleplaying game ever made. However the dungeon is not the only type of adventure possible with these game. The mechanics are flexible enough to support just about any type of adventure you can imagine those character are capable of doing.

There is a wealth of supplements and adventures to draw on for when your time or imagination is in short supply. Also many of these products expand the type of possible characters and give further support to specific types of adventures.

Many of these products are free both in terms of cost and creativity. Much of the OSR is bluit on the ideals of open gaming where the only thing asked of folks using their materials is to in return share what they created under the same term. This is regardless whether the work is just for fun, non-commercial, or commercial.

Quote from: estar;692184[long declamation]

Yeah, that mouthful is just what I don't see any point in laying on some hapless innocent who might otherwise be interested in playing an adventure game.

"Wanna see what D&D was like before they fucked it up?"

Quote from: Tetsubo;691933What would you say to a new player to sell them on the idea of playing a OSR game?

Are we talking 1. new to tabletop RPGs (but not video game RPGs), 2. new to D&D, 3. new to Old School D&D, or 4. new to RPGs at all?

First: "Hey, you ever wondered where all this originated from?  Have I got the RPG for you!"

Second: "Hey, you interested in playing Dungeons & Dragons?  It's kind of like Shadowrun/Call of Cthulhu/etc, but set in a fantasy world of monsters and magic."

Third: "Hey, you ever wanted to see what it was like in the 70s and 80s?  Are you a bad enough dude to conquer the Tomb of Horrors, or the Temple of Elemental Evil?"

Fourth: "Imagine an interactive world where you are the main character.  You might be a mage, a thief, an elf, or something else in a Tolkienian fantasy world, full of ancient ruins and foreboding caverns full of danger and excitement!  You form a team of adventurers with some other players, and one player's the Dungeon Master, who creates the world before you all."

Quote from: Phillip;692279Yeah, that mouthful is just what I don't see any point in laying on some hapless innocent who might otherwise be interested in playing an adventure game.

It depends whether if they just going to play or get into running the game as well. If just a play of course a simpler explanation is warranted. But since both situations are being talked about then I gave a complete explanation of what all involved.

Quote from: JRR;692283"Wanna see what D&D was like before they fucked it up?"

That's exactly the kind of "get off my lawn" attitude I so enjoy about theRPGSite.

Some gamers would consider the mechanics of 1e/2e D&D "fucked up." But hey, that's alright, we all started out playing earlier versions of the game, and had some fun with them. Some of us were simply willing to acknowledge they weren't perfect, and could be improved upon. There's no reason a newbie shouldn't go through the same process, and give the "old school" a try so they know why 3E was necessary, and move on....