Quote from: P&P;687551It's longer than the Fellowship of the Ring.

Christers, man.

Quote from: P&P;687551It's longer than the Fellowship of the Ring.

That's what she said!

...yeah I've already called a taxi thanks...

Quote from: P&P;687551It's longer than the Fellowship of the Ring.

That sounds like a porn advertisement.


Question for you on OSRIC, since we are talking houserules, why did you decide to not include XP values for magic items in the rules?

Quote from: LibraryLass;687495On the contrary. I'm being self-effacing in my choice of words. At least when it comes to D&D, there are a lot of houserules I like, to the point that I'm concerned that using all the ones I might be tempted to turns my game into a Frankenstein's monster of a system that, were I to run a game for completely new players, would give them a lot of mistaken expectations were they to game with somebody else.

It isn't complicated.

The referee's table, the referee rules.
It is the referee responsibility to explain clearly the rules of his game.

Quote from: LibraryLass;687479Is there an amount of house ruling for a game at which point it becomes intellectually dishonest when teaching new players? If so, where is that point reached?

No, not really.  

To avoid intellectual dishonesty, you should explain that there are house rules that you use, so if your players are familiar with the 'standard rules' they may notice some differences.  If your players are unfamiliar with the 'standard rules', once they're familiar with them, you can offer to explain your house rules and what benefit you think they provide over the standard rules.  

Most players won't really care as long as they're having fun.

But if you have players that are interested in why you do things differently, providing your reasoning may help inform the thinking of the next great game designer.  

As a GM, you shouldn't feel constrained by a particular ruleset.  To be fair to your players, when you alter the ruleset, you should be prepared to explain the differences.  If you give a player the books and they decide to make a character that relies on 'stick into snakes' and 'snake charm' as the basis of the character, it's unfortunate when you have to explain that isn't available because of your house rules.  But for new players, you'll be guiding them through the options, so it should be only a minor issue.  For experienced players, having a list of house rules is extremely helpful.  

If you don't have one handy, try to make notes when you hit a house rule during the game and add it to the document.

Quote from: P&P;687544At last count, I've got 236,000 words of OSRIC house rules.  Do I qualify for some kind of award?

Rust Never Sleeps, with oak cluster. And I thought Mythmere was the indefatigable one!

Quote from: jeff37923;687555That sounds like a porn advertisement.


Question for you on OSRIC, since we are talking houserules, why did you decide to not include XP values for magic items in the rules?

They are included in version 2.2 and later, if I'm not mistaken, and thus Black Blade Publishing's second printing and later. P&P?

Well, the paradigm under which I learned to play was "Tell me what you want to do.  If you need to roll some kind of dice I'll tell you what to roll."  Not having to know the rules to play was a huge part of the appeal.  "Just sit down and start playing!"

Or as Dave Arneson said, "Don't ask me what you need to hit.  Roll the dice; I'll tell you if you it or not."

Or "As with any other set of miniatures rules they are guidelines to follow in designing your own fantastic-medieval campaign. They provide the framework around which you will build a game of simplicity or tremendous complexity"

Dungeons and Dragons, Volume 1, "Men and Magic", page 4.  (TSR, 1974)

"If your referee has made changes in the rules and/or tables, simply note them in pencil (for who knows when some flux of the cosmos will make things shift once again!),

Ibid.

"There are unquestionably areas which have been glossed over. While we deeply regret the necessity, space requires that we put in the essentials only, and the trimming will oftimes have to be added by the referee and his players. We have attempted to furnish an ample framework, and building should be both easy and fun. In this light, we urge you to refrain from writing for rule interpretations or the like unless you are absolutely at a loss, for everything herein is fantastic, and the best way is to decide how you would like it to be, and then make it just that way! On the other hand, we are not loath to answer your questions, but why have us do any more of your imagining for you?" (emphasis mine)

Dungeons and Dragons, Volume 3, Underworld and Wilderness Adventures, page 36.  (TSR, 1974)

Quote from: Benoist;687564They are included in version 2.2 and later, if I'm not mistaken, and thus Black Blade Publishing's second printing and later. P&P?

I've got one of the first copies, I will have to download again I guess.

I am upfront with my players that they are playing "My D&D" and the game rules in the book may be different and their experience with othe DMs may be different as well.

This was an issue at cons in the early 80s. We had lots of people who showed up whose home game was a WTF amalgamation and they swore they were sure they were playing RAW.

On the flip side, we had DMs who confounded players by expecting them to accept WTF houserules when they signed up for a 6 hour slot expecting a game of AD&D.

And then there were the Explainer DMs who spent 30-60 minutes of a 4 hour session trying to explain their byzantine house rules. At the Northern California Cons, I pushed for GMs to try to play RAW at cons because then both DMs and players would know what to expect. For several years, PacifiCon had GMs list a % of houserules to be used. Thus, you could decide if you wanted to play D&D with the 0%, 20% or 80% house rule people.

The house rule issue mostly died out in the 2e days, at least from what I saw at conventions. I think Living Campaigns being RAW only had an effect as did the "gamer as consumer" culture than took over the hobby.

BUT most importantly, fuck the rules. Spend your brain power making your game table's fun more awesome, not conformed to somebody else's standard of fun.

Quote from: Spinachcat;687581BUT most importantly, fuck the rules. Spend your brain power making your game table's fun more awesome, not conformed to somebody else's standard of fun.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

(I must be drunk)

Quote from: Rincewind1;687485About halfway to the Moon, but before the Cottage Cheese horizon.

We can't stop here, this is bat country.

Quote from: J Arcane;687585We can't stop here, this is bat country.

We're going to be dragged kicking and screaming into the Century of the Fruitbat.

Quote from: Benoist;687564They are included in version 2.2 and later, if I'm not mistaken, and thus Black Blade Publishing's second printing and later. P&P?

Correct.  It was a screwup on my part that took much too long to fix.

Quote from: Old Geezer;687565"There are unquestionably areas which have been glossed over. While we deeply regret the necessity, space requires that we put in the essentials only, and the trimming will oftimes have to be added by the referee and his players. We have attempted to furnish an ample framework, and building should be both easy and fun. In this light, we urge you to refrain from writing for rule interpretations or the like unless you are absolutely at a loss, for everything herein is fantastic, and the best way is to decide how you would like it to be, and then make it just that way! On the other hand, we are not loath to answer your questions, but why have us do any more of your imagining for you?" (emphasis mine)

Dungeons and Dragons, Volume 3, Underworld and Wilderness Adventures, page 36.  (TSR, 1974)

"It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. NEVER hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rule book upon you, IF it goes against the obvious intent of the game. As you hew the line with respect to conformity to major systems and uniformity of play in general, also be certain the game is mastered by you and not by your players. Within the broad parameters give in the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Volumes, YOU are creator and final arbiter. By ordering things as they should be, the game as a WHOLE first, your CAMPAIGN next, and your participants thereafter, you will be playing Advanced Dungeons and Dragons as it was meant to be. May you find as much pleasure in so doing as the rest of us do."

- Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Dungeon Masters Guide, afterward (exact page no. varies by printing revision)

...which is not to disagree with you; quite to the contrary, both quotes are accurate and complimentary.