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D&D/Old School snark in printed game books?

Started by J Arcane, August 28, 2013, 08:46:50 AM

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The Traveller

#15
August 29, 2013, 03:35:32 PM
Quoteand Marge the Barbarian
Great, now I have visions of an amazon with a tall blue beehive-afro.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

David Johansen

#16
August 30, 2013, 09:34:25 AM
Quote from: Black Vulmea;686919Funny, I've found that to often be the case - people hatin' on somethin' by expressing what are, to me, its virtues.

I'll admit that I've come around to this over the years.  No it doesn't support my play style but other people really like it and it's well designed for what they want it to do.

Really if WotC wanted to utterly rule and dominate the market they'd take Clash's idea for a fully modular build your own game system data base and build it under the name Dungeons & Dragons.

You'd just click series of branching survey questions and get the game you want with the options you want.  They'd be unified by a monster / npc profile that would be standard for adventures and about one step up from Tunnels and Trolls' Monster Rating.
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thedungeondelver

#17
August 30, 2013, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: Caesar Slaad;686489Fantasy Hero for Hero 4e was an excellent resource in a lot of ways,  but looking back on its section of campaign styles, its section on "hack and slash" fantasy read like an over the top caricature of D&D stereotypes. The way it presented a campaign style it openly mocked made that section seem less like a resource for the game and more taking pot shots at D&D.

The 5e Fantasy supplement was way, way better.
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

thedungeondelver

#18
August 30, 2013, 11:32:41 AM
I have a vague recollection of some snark in the introduction to Cyberpunk 2013 (or may have been 2020) to the effect that you could either play in a William Gibson, likely-to-happen-any-time-now dark near-future or you could go off and play "that game with the elves and pixies and magic".
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

J Arcane

#19
August 30, 2013, 11:35:00 AM
Quote from: thedungeondelver;687070I have a vague recollection of some snark in the introduction to Cyberpunk 2013 (or may have been 2020) to the effect that you could either play in a William Gibson, likely-to-happen-any-time-now dark near-future or you could go off and play "that game with the elves and pixies and magic".

This may've been snark at Shadowrun, rather than D&D, and it wouldn't be isolated in that. One of Bruce Sterling's books contains a remark describing SR as 'rendered idiotic' by the addition of fantasy elements like elves and dragons.
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Exploderwizard

#20
August 30, 2013, 11:45:27 AM
I don't think any game spat on D&D quite as much as Fantasy Wargaming.

"Who the hell wants to play the role of a hobbit?"  :p
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

thedungeondelver

#21
August 30, 2013, 11:50:02 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;687072I don't think any game spat on D&D quite as much as Fantasy Wargaming.

"Who the hell wants to play the role of a hobbit?"  :p

Yes but Fantasy Wargaming was probably the shittiest RPG I've ever seen so I never took offense at what were clearly the ravings of a madman.
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

Exploderwizard

#22
August 30, 2013, 11:51:20 AM
Quote from: thedungeondelver;687073Yes but Fantasy Wargaming was probably the shittiest RPG I've ever seen so I never took offense at what were clearly the ravings of a madman.

But....but..... Its the highest level. Says so right on the cover. :rotfl:
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

thedungeondelver

#23
August 30, 2013, 11:51:34 AM
Quote from: J Arcane;687071This may've been snark at Shadowrun, rather than D&D, and it wouldn't be isolated in that. One of Bruce Sterling's books contains a remark describing SR as 'rendered idiotic' by the addition of fantasy elements like elves and dragons.

I thought about that but Cyberpunk 2013 hit in 1988, Shadowrun wasn't released until 89 or so.  Of course it's entirely possible Mike Pondsmith knew about SR beforehand, or that I'm thinking of Cyberpunk:2020.  

(ha ha, Firefox thinks Cyberpunk is a real word but Shadowrun isn't :D :D :D )
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

thedungeondelver

#24
August 30, 2013, 11:52:48 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;687074But....but..... Its the highest level. Says so right on the cover. :rotfl:

"Who the hell wants to play a Hobbit when you can play this RPG over here where you can be burned at the stake for being left handed?"
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

thedungeondelver

#25
August 30, 2013, 11:57:23 AM
To get back on topic: Tunnels & Trolls was, essentially all anti-D&D snark.
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

RunningLaser

#26
August 30, 2013, 01:32:42 PM Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 01:37:48 PM by RunningLaser
Quote from: thedungeondelver;687078To get back on topic: Tunnels & Trolls was, essentially all anti-D&D snark.

Hmmm, I caught a little bit of "hat's off and thanks" in the beginning, but can't remember too much if anything after that- although it's been a long while since I've read my 5.5.

As an aside- there were some stupid crap in the books that I disliked.

David Johansen

#27
August 30, 2013, 02:43:03 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;687072"Who the hell wants to play the role of a hobbit?"  :p

I'm pretty sure Gary Gygax said about the same thing in the original three booklets.  "Hobbits (though why anyone would want to play one is beyond) me..." or some such thing.

As for Tunnels and Trolls, I don't recall any anti D&D snark in fifth edition beyond Ken St Andre saying that he wrote it because he thought D&D was too expensive and complex.

And then there's Fantasy Wargaming which was written by a guy who'd IRRC had only played Tunnels and Trolls and Chivalry and Sorcery not Dungeons & Dragons.  So most of his complaints are aimed at a completely different game. :D
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jeff37923

#28
August 30, 2013, 02:44:45 PM
I remember the anti-D&D snark in either Cyberpunk 2013 or 2020. I think it was 2013. I loved the comment by Bruce Sterling about Shadowrun, mainly because I agree with it.

Munchkin d20 was parody of 3.x, and some of it is pretty funny. The thing is, since they went the extra mile with the parody and made the entries actually useable in a 3.x game, I have found them great little surprises in my 3.x games for Players. So as straight anti-D&D snark, they kinda backfired.
"Meh."

thedungeondelver

#29
August 30, 2013, 04:13:12 PM
Would the entirety of Hackmaster be anti-D&D snark?
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l
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