Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;684912Pathfinder is just another iteration of 3.x, and 3.x has been around in some form for 13 years. Do you really expect it to vanish any time soon? I don't.

Oh, and why can't you get people to play 1e? What's up with that?

I said 'hope'; I realize pathfinder is not going anywhere.

I know many, many 3X and 4E players that have zero interest in 1e.

Quote from: Bill;685034I said 'hope'; I realize pathfinder is not going anywhere.

I know many, many 3X and 4E players that have zero interest in 1e.

I like 1e.

But I also like 3.x/Pathfinder.

Um...maybe you can coax some players into 1e, by using some of that Dwarven Forge terrain? It's expensive, but awesome. Maybe you could use it to break through people's mental "force field". It's worth a try, right?

Or create a super-huge, awesome dungeon map...and show it to your players. Then ask 'em to play it with 1e.

Or maybe you could create some online ads looking for 1e players.

Or ask some non-gamer friends to play? They might not have any preconceived notions. I don't know. I'm just throwing paint at the wall here....

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;685037I like 1e.

But I also like 3.x/Pathfinder.

Um...maybe you can coax some players into 1e, by using some of that Dwarven Forge terrain? It's expensive, but awesome. Maybe you could use it to break through people's mental "force field". It's worth a try, right?

Or create a super-huge, awesome dungeon map...and show it to your players. Then ask 'em to play it with 1e.

Or maybe you could create some online ads looking for 1e players.

Or ask some non-gamer friends to play? They might not have any preconceived notions. I don't know. I'm just throwing paint at the wall here....

The mental force fields are very strong.

Quote from: Old One Eye;685000DMed 4e for a few years and I have never even seen what DDI looks like.  We just used books like with every other rpg.  I will grant that 4e combat is kind of a pain in the ass, but lack of electronic support is not what caused it to be a pain in the ass.  It is tracking the constantly shifting, short duration status effects that makes it that way.

I ran a 4e game and played in several others long before any of us ever got a DDI account. Insider makes it EASIER, but its not impossible without it. So yeah, I agree.

But everyone else here has already made up their minds to not listen to anyone with actual play experience. No one responded to my post before saying that playing without DDI is entirely possible, so I doubt anyone besides me will respond to yours either.

Its easier to feed into the hatefest that Mistwell is easily building up himself than to face nonconfrontational posts asserting that they might be wrong.

I'm not saying 4e chargen was simple. But it was no more difficult without DDI than I found 3.x or Hero system, both of which are playable.

Quote from: Haffrung;684961Yep. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the things that held 4E back was the reliance on minis and a grid. WotC is making support for theatre of the mind a core element of Next, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

Yeah, the first time I played 4th, the whole pull/push/shift/shove/twirl mini-game was really interesting, definitely something different. About the fifth fight it got old, about the 10th fight setting up a board and miniatures became a real chore.

Quote from: Bill;685040The mental force fields are very strong.

I am truly sorry to hear that. You must be dealing with a tough crowd. Maybe you could try..

http://www.penandpapergames.com/

or...

http://www.meetup.com/find/

There are lots of gamers on these two sites. It might be possible to find some AD&D gamers in your area. It's worth a shot anyway..

Quote from: Sacrosanct;684252Almost


Doods, I wanted you to be able to read it

If you don't mind, I would really appreciate if you could give me the name of that font. Perhabs even a link if it isn't a standard font and you got it.

Hi all! Just joined.

Caesar Slaad: You name may well be the best forum name I've ever seen. I tip my hat.

EDIT: Sacrosanct: Thank you!

Quote from: johnnih;685121If you don't mind, I would really appreciate if you could give me the name of that font. Perhabs even a link if it isn't a standard font and you got it.

Hi all! Just joined.

Caesar Slaad: You name may well be the best forum name I've ever seen. I tip my hat.

It's the Bradley Hand font.

And welcome to the site!

Quote from: Emperor Norton;685070I ran a 4e game and played in several others long before any of us ever got a DDI account. Insider makes it EASIER, but its not impossible without it. So yeah, I agree.

But everyone else here has already made up their minds to not listen to anyone with actual play experience. No one responded to my post before saying that playing without DDI is entirely possible, so I doubt anyone besides me will respond to yours either.

Its easier to feed into the hatefest that Mistwell is easily building up himself than to face nonconfrontational posts asserting that they might be wrong.

I'm not saying 4e chargen was simple. But it was no more difficult without DDI than I found 3.x or Hero system, both of which are playable.

In fairness, the way many if not most self-prescribed fans of 4e describe their games on online forums is wholly alien to my experiences with the game, and frankly sounds dull as shit.  

Reminds me of the time a new player joined the group I was running through the Temple of Elemental Evil.  She picked up a cursed item, failed the ability check I had her roll, and became permanently blinded.  Cue a ten minute discussion where I had to convince her that it is perfectly fine with the rules of 4e for a character to be permanently blinded from a cursed item.

The people on this thread making odd statements about the playability of 4e remind me of her mindset.

[SIDETREK]To anyone who has wanted a 'custom' handwriting font, check this site out. http://www.myscriptfont.com/[/SIDETREK]

Best way to make crazy fonts for handouts. I had my first one installed on computer in about 15 min.

Quote from: Mistwell;684966So now I ask the obvious question: are you just an asshole, an idiot, or both?

I was responding to a question ABOUT my attitude.  When someone claims to have read my attitude and comes to a wrong conclusion, I correct them.  The point of my responses is not to read my attitude - I didn't raise the topic of my attitude at all.

Yes, automators exist for all editions, and no, that does not in any way equate with parity.

And you saying that tells me, with certainty, you've never used the current version of the DDI.  Nobody who had used it would be so foolish a to claim prior games have achieved any level of electronic support parity with the DDI.

I could not give a toss about your opinion about me. I care about the content of your posts, which offered nothing. As to your perception of replying to MY response to the content YOUR point, as if it is about YOUR attitude to the group at large, explains quite a bit of your viewpoint. This is about your point making no sense.

Now, I have used DDI (so you are wrong here, but I could care less). My friends paid for it and used it during a 4e kick and I used it as well. It's an automator, snazzy and new due to advances in technology, but it's still just an automator. 4e is not "better" because of its automator, period. I've used it and it's not the sine qua non advantage that separates 4e from other editions -- as was your contestation. The reason to play 4e is not because of DDI; it is a utility, nothing more. If you are going to use 4e it helps, it however does not convince you to use 4e when you are otherwise not interested. And yes, THAT is why there is parity.

Quote from: Mistwell;684966I didn't say I found it useful, I said the proof that others found it useful was in the responses.  If it were an entirely useless thing, everyone would just ignore it.

This goes to the point that you see any noise is good noise. Most of the replies were "you're off your rocker" variety, and yet you interpret that as useful contribution, not a disruptive red herring. By this you make yourself easily pegged as tedious, to argue for argument's sake.

Quote from: Mistwell;684966Yeah it couldn't possibly be I liked 4e and think you have no fucking clue what you're talking about when it comes to issues about 4e.  

Incorrect. And how I know so is this: 4e and your like of it is not topical. So this is not an issue about 4e, lest it needs to be "defended," and our knowledge thereof is irrelevant. The only way this can be justified is if you are defending 4e like a white knight by means of red herrings.

This topic is about Next being close to Basic. It could care less about 4e knowledge in general, and I could care less about your opinion about my 4e knowledge. This is about how to emulate a feel for older styles as the company mitigates ill will generated previously. 4e is just not that important to this discussion here.

Quote from: Mistwell;684966Compost mang, compost.  Just remember to water it frequently, and turn it often as well.

Incorrect. The correct answer is stock, then compost. However you may craft some before composting. The important thing is not to hoard, otherwise you may end up on The Learning Channel.

Nah, I'm just playing. Vegetable clippings are nowhere near as serious stuff as RPGs.

I played the new version of 5e last week. Meh. The session was okay, nothing in the rules made me excited or upset, just a feeling of banality. If this is what the final rules look like (which is unknown) I would play 5e with the right group, but I do not see any reason AS YET why I would trade 0e or 4e for 5e.

That said, my group isn't jazzed enough about the playtest to do more than occassional one shots as convention prep. They are more excited about trying to get together a L5R or Shadowrun campaign instead.

I've looked over some of the 5e material, and it really feels like 3rd, with a few tricks tagged on from 4th to let you boost a wee bit.

Quote from: Claudius;685022You may call me a luddite, grumpy, whatever, but if a game requires that I use some kind of software, I will not play it. Period. I want my pencils, my eraser, my sheet of paper, and my dice, thank you very much.

I have no problem with that at all.  I am not overly fond of it either.  I am speaking to the issue of accessibility to new players - not my personal preference for gaming.

That said, my life is just too fucking busy these days to go through all the stuff required to form a 3e character that will function with what DMs tend to create/use these days.  That was a fun  minigame for me, back before I had a kid.  But now, I just don't have the time or patience to spread out 15 friggen books on the floor to pour through stuff to match things to my character concept that will actually work OK with each other and make for a survivable character in the overpowered deathtraps DMs seem to like to use these days (often from Paizo).

So, for now at least, 5e is hitting that sweet spot for me.  And God knows you don't need a computer program to make that one page character sheet work.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;685070I ran a 4e game and played in several others long before any of us ever got a DDI account. Insider makes it EASIER, but its not impossible without it. So yeah, I agree.

But everyone else here has already made up their minds to not listen to anyone with actual play experience. No one responded to my post before saying that playing without DDI is entirely possible, so I doubt anyone besides me will respond to yours either.

Its easier to feed into the hatefest that Mistwell is easily building up himself than to face nonconfrontational posts asserting that they might be wrong.

I'm not saying 4e chargen was simple. But it was no more difficult without DDI than I found 3.x or Hero system, both of which are playable.

You know, you're right.  It was entirely possible to make a 4e character without the DDI.  In fact, Essentials made that easier, and had quick generation rules as well.  

It's just that, once you use DDI, it's hard to imagine going back to doing it by hand.  Because DDI made it SO much easier.  And that's what most people I knew ended up doing as well.

But sure, I grant your point, it not only could be done, but I bet your right that more people did it than I was aware of.

My point remains that 4e was highly accessible to new players.  That was, entirely, my point.  This stuff about how people don't like the electronic tool they never even saw or used is just more random drive-by 4e hate, not even addressing the point being made to begin with.