Maztica, along with Anchorômé, were swapped out with another continent upon twin planet Abeir.

Toril is part of a twin planet system Abeil-Toril, of which god Ao said fuck it, and broke all of everyone's shit -- so we could all play dragonborn, tiefling, whatchamacallit in cubical sphere space where everyone was 'balanced'.

Oh, and Halruaa went boom. Along with IIRC Thay, Mulhorand, etc.

Pretty much where 2e shook up the setting, 4e just blew it up. Added a second planet, swapped some continents, blew up a few bystander nations, erased non-PC slave nations, and then labeled it "new and improved!" Probably threw in some Halleluyah Mountains while they were at it and called it a day.

After only reading FR from grey box and 2e recently and then transitioning to 4e Spellplague -- no, just no.

Quote from: RPGPundit;682621What I meant by it is just going back in time and hitting the 'reset' button.  As far as I know NONE of the nWoD games did that. They were all new settings, some more or less similar to their older edition, but all different in some pretty fundamental ways.

My impression with Mage is that the game was completely different.  The main points of conflict and narrative interest in the oWoD were completely gone.  It was possible in nWoD Vampire for a subset of the vampire community to actually believe they were in the oWoD or a similar context.  Nothing like that exists with Mage.

Quote from: Opaopajr;682697Maztica, along with Anchorômé, were swapped out with another continent upon twin planet Abeir.

Toril is part of a twin planet system Abeil-Toril, of which god Ao said fuck it, and broke all of everyone's shit -- so we could all play dragonborn, tiefling, whatchamacallit in cubical sphere space where everyone was 'balanced'.

Oh, and Halruaa went boom. Along with IIRC Thay, Mulhorand, etc.

Pretty much where 2e shook up the setting, 4e just blew it up. Added a second planet, swapped some continents, blew up a few bystander nations, erased non-PC slave nations, and then labeled it "new and improved!" Probably threw in some Halleluyah Mountains while they were at it and called it a day.

After only reading FR from grey box and 2e recently and then transitioning to 4e Spellplague -- no, just no.

IIRC 'Abeir-Toril' just translates to "cradle of life" i.e. its the full name of Toril in the canon. So the whole second planet existing is a retcon. Along with the Dragonboob empire and Tiefling empires, the addition of primordials and whatnot to canon, they managed to not just Spellplague the planet but also change its history. Oh and they replaced nearly all the gods.

At best using 4E FR you might find the occasional ruined inn inhabited by century-old zombie NPCs you'd recognize; other than that its a different setting. 4E FR and 3E FR are more or less the same setting in the same way Gangbusters and Gamma World are both the same setting, but with less geography in common and more changes in assumed playstyle.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;681673From the sales volume in my store WW was a second tier company long before nWoD was announced.

Obviously your experience is your experience, but industry-wide data still had them as one of the Top 3 or Top 2 companies in the RPG industry through 2003.

There's no question WW was already on a serious decline, ever since D&D 3.0 came out; the nWoD just sealed the deal.

Quote from: RPGPundit;683436There's no question WW was already on a serious decline, ever since D&D 3.0 came out; the nWoD just sealed the deal.

I wonder if they asked their fans if the nwod concept was something they might like?

I was not impressed with old or new wod mechanics but I kind of like the setting.

I think the thing was that they had already taken the owod about as far as it could go. Three editions of the main games, a half dozen or so other spinoff games, an exhaustive list of supplements... what else was left to do?

Quote from: soviet;683592I think the thing was that they had already taken the owod about as far as it could go. Three editions of the main games, a half dozen or so other spinoff games, an exhaustive list of supplements... what else was left to do?

They could have Not Taken It Anywhere, and 'fixed' the horrid game mechanics

Quote from: Bill;683609They could have Not Taken It Anywhere, and 'fixed' the horrid game mechanics

They had made a move towards doing that with Revised, although nWoD obviously went a lot further and is a much better game, mechanically.

But i think the problems predated nWoD by some time. For one you had a massive change in zeitgeist that rendered the culture behind the games unfashionable. Secondly, I would argue the later books just where not as good - as soon as Nosferatu starts throwing nukes around the whole tone shifts  from edgy realism to poor-quality comic books and fans deserted as a result.

Quote from: jadrax;683625They had made a move towards doing that with Revised, although nWoD obviously went a lot further and is a much better game, mechanically.

But i think the problems predated nWoD by some time. For one you had a massive change in zeitgeist that rendered the culture behind the games unfashionable. Secondly, I would argue the later books just where not as good - as soon as Nosferatu starts throwing nukes around the whole tone shifts  from edgy realism to poor-quality comic books and fans deserted as a result.

Which leads to the point that you can't just "not take it anywhere" since pretty much every game, even from the get-go, had been leading to the concept that the world is going to end.  I mean, "Werewolf: The Apocalypse."  So they had to reboot if only because their end-of-the-world scenario was no longer plausible.  Which is indeed because of the larger point that the zeitgeist had passed "Gothic-Punk" by, but also because of their own philosophy for the setting.

This of course is a separate subject from the shitty rules, especially since I don't think Storytelling System is an improvement on Storyteller or even the transitional system used by Adventure! and Exalted.

JG

I think it was pretty cool how they managed to lift out a continent the size of South America and then dump an Australian-sized alien landmass in its place without creating tidal waves that would have wiped out every medieval coastal settlement everywhere.

Not to mention dumping several mountain ranges on top of Mulhorand (complete with Dragonborn! and Genie people) without so much as a single EPA lawsuit.

And to think there was a day when people were upset with the Shadovar for melting a few icecaps.

Quote from: Saplatt;683721I think it was pretty cool how they managed to lift out a continent the size of South America and then dump an Australian-sized alien landmass in its place without creating tidal waves that would have wiped out every medieval coastal settlement everywhere.

Not to mention dumping several mountain ranges on top of Mulhorand (complete with Dragonborn! and Genie people) without so much as a single EPA lawsuit.

And to think there was a day when people were upset with the Shadovar for melting a few icecaps.

"F@#% You, it's MAGIC!"

This is looking a lot like a soft reset - http://www.wizards.com/dnd/sundering.aspx

What is the Sundering?
 The Sundering will reshape the Forgotten Realms, involving the whole pantheon of gods, many nations, countless individuals, and the fabric of the cosmos itself. Powerful forces both mortal and divine are set in motion, and will bring an end to the Era of Upheaval. Over the course of this huge story event, players will have the opportunity to help shape the future of Faerûn and make their story legend.

Discover the ways you can experience the Sundering, including through tabletop roleplaying game adventures, store-based play programs, novels, accessories, and the first free-to-play D&D mobile game.

The end of the Era of Upheaval is nigh!
The world of the Forgotten Realms has endured one catastrophe after another for the past century or so, from the Time of Troubles through the Spellplague. Time after time, upheaval has reshaped the pantheon, overthrown nations and rulers, and even altered the geography of the world. Now, the world is being shaken and reshaped once again—for the last time.

 The gods are thrown into chaos at the promise of a new reckoning of the pantheon, and they scramble and grasp at power in hopes of cementing their positions of authority. Their mortal agents in the world, the Chosen, are charged with carrying out their will in every aspect of life.

 The Spellplague, the magical catastrophe that reshaped the world so dramatically, has come to an end. The Weave of magic is rewoven, and many lingering effects of twisted magic fade. The intermingling of worlds brought about by the Spellplague also comes to an end, as what belongs to Abeir returns to Abeir, leaving the Forgotten Realms looking much as it did before.

 Partly driven by the activity of the gods' Chosen and partly arising from the turbulent political situation at the end of the Era of Upheaval, the nations and factions of Faerûn engage in their own maneuvers, manipulations, and acts of aggression. In particular, the empire of Netheril attempts to conquer the Dalelands, Cormyr, and Myth Drannor, setting off a war that engulfs the eastern Heartlands. The Harpers and the Zhentarim respond to the growing threats in the world by regrouping and refocusing their energies, slowly returning to their former prominence.

 Nations, geography, magic, and even the gods are changing forever, in the birth-pangs that herald a new creation. The world needs heroes to ensure that the new age dawns bright and full of hope, where good still shines as a beacon against the darkness.

Also they're keeping 4e-style Tieflings around but making room for more variation, possibly going back to 2e tainted folk rather than an actual species.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd%2F4wand%2F20130820

*sigh* I guess I should take it as a victory that "musical continents" has stopped. Still kinda wish it was "it was all just a bad dream" alternate universe ret-con.

Jesus, I had no idea what a clusterfuck 4e was for the Realms.  Do you figure they took Ed Greenwood aside and were like,
 "Hey Ed--everything we're ever publishing is core now, because we never want another DM to have to say 'no'. So we figured it would be totally metal to like, smash another world into the Realms."
"Wait, like a dimension?"
"No, like a planet."
"Wouldn't that kind of break a planet?"
"Listen, Ed, they told me you were a team player. Are you on Team Awesome, or Team Stick in The Mud?"
"I'm just not sure--"
"Awesome? Or Stick in the Mud? Because we only have room on payroll for people on Team Awesome."
"I do like eating."
"We all like eating, Ed."
"So... is this like a Spelljammer crossover? Like an alien invasion thing? We've established the Spelljammers exist here, you know."
"Ed, I'm hearing a lot of old ideas out of you. I'm not hearing any new ideas. You know what a new idea is, right, Ed?"
"Planet Smashing."
"Fuck. Yes. Good to have you on board."